Large MTT Endgame

Playing large (500+ ppl) mtt is my favorite format for playing nl hold'em. I've made it deep a decent amount of times with five final tables that ended with a win, second, third, 7th and 8th. Most of the time I find myself getting knocked out in late game, but before the real money starts. I have Dan Harrington on Hold'em Volume 2:The Endgame, but obviously I've missed something.

Some of my recent finishes:

29th out of 18875
15th out of 647
18th out of 779
65th out of 1376
19th out of 444
59th out of 1571
20th out of 1583
11th out of 180
36th out of 748
12th out of 929
31st out of 665
80th out of 1722
38th out of 418
15th out of 897


That's way to many missed opportunities to making final tables where a decent amount of money could be won. With my most recent 29th in miniftops event#1 I noticed/felt like I was one of the worst players at that point. It might have been because of lack of sleep (10hrs of poker and up the entire previous day) but that's how I felt. I never just try to scrape by to make it itm, and I have no problem putting my stack on the line on the bubble because who cares if you just make your money back after 5 hours of play. But there is a big difference between the itm bubble, and when getting close to the ft, or final two tables bubble.

For those of you who play and do well in large MTT how do you cope with endgame, low M situations? What kind of signs to do you look for when trying to find a player who's just going to try and fold their way to the final table? How light will you 3-bet the guy that's made a steal raise the past 4 rounds on your BB? Is there ever a time when calling a pfr is correct, or should I play raise/fold? Is there a trick to ignoring the fact that 240,00 is only 2 BB and not 240,000 chips (big number syndrome)? Are there any other books out there other than Harringtons that will provide some insight?

Kind of a random list of questions but I want to make more final tables! Any other bits of information are more than welcome.

~Thanks

I had the same problem, and I can say you are on the right way. Its just a matter of time before you start rounding up the final tables.
When it comes to re-raising that aggressive player, well if you have 10bb's or less you need to re-raise all-in with all your good hands, depending a bit on position, with AJ+ 77+.
When it comes to 20 bb's you need to re-raise all-in with a much more narrow range, such as AQ+ TT+, but at the same time throw in some bluffs in your range.
If you are both deeper than 30bb's then re-raise with a narrow range, but throw in a lot of bluffs as well, and remember to try to have position.

My approach to the endgame starts when my stack starts getting below 50bb. I'll take flips trying to double up so I don't get to the business end of tourney shortstacked. A lot of times I might get knocked out sooner than someone more conservative but the times I don't I am in excellent position to make the final table and take the tourney down. There's a pretty flat payout scale from the bubble right up to the final 3 or 4 tables so busting out just in the money is not a lot worse than busting out with 3 tables left a few hours later. When you consider the time factor it's really close.

I started to play some suited connectors, Asuiteds, low pp's...

This, in the final quarter of tournaments make my stack increase too much

First of all Congrats on your finish.. huge field/deep finish = well done... most players on here should be getting answers from you-not the other way around.

Ive also noticed that the few FTs that ive made, the final table bubble is a whole diff ballgame to the money bubble. You sound like me where you dont even care about the bubble. But the final table bubble brings with it a serious question about whether you have the courage to do what you know you have to if you wanna see the shiny lights.

I think you know what youre doing (beating 18K people), so keep it up. Theres a saying somewhere about the definition of stupidity: doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. I dont think that applies to poker FT bubble play because youre gonna have to flip with either a pair (hopefully) or two overcards to make a final table and you just gotta pray that youre the one that wins, IMO. So I think stick with your strat and you should be cleaning up some of these big prizes.

GL dude

I don't know if this will hel you alot but I suffer from this affliction! Playing 20,000 chips just to see the flop just doesn't seem wise even though it's the end of the game and everybody has 200,000 or more! I hate to admit it but I usually wait for a nice set of hole cards I can't throw away and just push my whole stack in! Maybe that's why I finish in 10th thru 12th ALOT!

I used to have a similar problem where I would finish a lot in the spots before the final table or in the top 30.

I think some of this is variance, but also I changed my game to where now I am more aggressive in the earlier stages of the tournament so usually when I go deep, I really get deep. I used to think going for the win was BS, but learning to balance making the money vs. winning is a great tournament skill.

There are good examples of both ends of the making the money vs. winning range. There is the person that wants to make the money so bad that they hang on with a mini stack. On the other side is the player that goes for the win with such force that he rarely gets there as he/she is gambling too much. Being either extreme rarely works - a balance is necessary.

Another thing that has really helped me is experience, which has meant that I can really start to open up my range as compared to a year ago when I was playing tight and 'conserving' my chips. And by playing a lot of post flop poker you will learn a lot more than just sitting back and waiting for hands.