KK late in the tournament

pistolpetewags11

pistolpetewags11

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Another situational tournament strategy question.

Blinds are at 2K/4K and I am sitting on 80K and I look down at KK in the cut off. UTG is fairly short stacked and limps. I decide to raise to 21K and isolate to the short stack. I get called from the small blind who has around 60K and under the gun folds. The board comes A68 all hearts. And to further my anger here, I do not hold the K of hearts.

Small blind shoves. After I beg him, he shows AJ and I glared at him with a lot of hate and anger.

I drop to 60K get blinded down to 40-45K and pick up 10-10 and lose flip to AQ for my tournament.

Does anybody feel that maybe shoving KK here should be the only move? I do think AJ folds to an all in, however I also believe that AJ should be folding to 21K and 1/3 or shoving. But in now way do I hate him calling, because in that spot, I always have AA, KK or AK and I move to chip leader in one simple hand. However, this hand broke me and I couldn't survive as a short stack.

Thanks in advance for your advice. Happy Holidays!
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

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IMO, you played it fine. Isoing the limper the best play unless you think limping behind is VERY likely to get aggression from someone still to come. I am folding OTF as well unless a read on SB makes calling OK, like he c/r if he hits and shoves his underpair....w/e.

But wp.
 
etherghost

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Very good play. You got unlucky that the :ah4: showed up on the board. It's an unfortunate situation for someone holding :kc4: :kd4: . It was a good fold. The idea at this point is to cool yourself down A.S.A.P and get back to the game.
 
abzdolc

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have to go all in in preflop, not giving chance to see A on flop , card's like AJ of s have to fold, I guess
 
Refinado Tom

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The final stages of a tournament are bloody. You lose a hand and practically you stay outside. For me, it's very well played. The flop was horrible.
 
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lost2qandisa

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Not sure why you wold tilt there. The SB played an AJ. Had I been SB in that spot, I would have shoved. Look on the bright side, he didn't and you got to fold after seeing the flop. Cards do not always fall as we need too. We can not control that. We can, however, control our actions and emotions. That is where the real game of poker lies. Use the force Luke!
 
pistolpetewags11

pistolpetewags11

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Not sure why you wold tilt there. The SB played an AJ. Had I been SB in that spot, I would have shoved. Look on the bright side, he didn't and you got to fold after seeing the flop. Cards do not always fall as we need too. We can not control that. We can, however, control our actions and emotions. That is where the real game of poker lies. Use the force Luke!

I didn't tilt. I lost the hand, and I got to less than 10bb and shoved pocket 10's. Seems all standard to me.

This hand was a really tough spot because of the blind levels. I go from a possible 100K and top of the leaderboard to under 60K and in the middle of the field where I now need to double.

An unfortunate A, and I am aware that this happens. However, I have noted this player willing to call AJ to a 5x raise pre. I can exploit that in the future.
 
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KK vs AJoff, the chances are like 70-30, actually KK is only behind AA, so any other hand is well under kings, so your raise was nice, despite you took a bit of the variance here, actually if the flop were been without any A you could shove and everybody else would fold so you were collected the pot and in this case your chances KK against AJoff are higher since kings only need to be ahead after the flop so kings´chances are like 87% against AJ, but unfortunately you took in this case the 13% and you lost, but imo you did right (around 6 out 7 you would have won but here was the 1/7 in which you lose). Better luck next time
 
etherghost

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have to go all in in preflop, not giving chance to see A on flop , card's like AJ of s have to fold, I guess

It all depends on who the player is, TBH. If it's a loose player who doesn't know how to calculate his/her odds properly, they might call your shove and get lucky. More exp. players would probably fold to a TAG player who shoves preflop.
 
horizon12

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Another situational tournament strategy question.

Blinds are at 2K/4K and I am sitting on 80K and I look down at KK in the cut off. UTG is fairly short stacked and limps. I decide to raise to 21K and isolate to the short stack. I get called from the small blind who has around 60K and under the gun folds. The board comes A68 all hearts. And to further my anger here, I do not hold the K of hearts.

Small blind shoves. After I beg him, he shows AJ and I glared at him with a lot of hate and anger.

I drop to 60K get blinded down to 40-45K and pick up 10-10 and lose flip to AQ for my tournament.

Does anybody feel that maybe shoving KK here should be the only move? I do think AJ folds to an all in, however I also believe that AJ should be folding to 21K and 1/3 or shoving. But in now way do I hate him calling, because in that spot, I always have AA, KK or AK and I move to chip leader in one simple hand. However, this hand broke me and I couldn't survive as a short stack.

Thanks in advance for your advice. Happy Holidays!
Leak in size bet.
Probability that against our KK, opponents will have AA too small against 1 player 0.49%, vs. 6 2,93% , vs. 9 players 4.39%

Our handing, isolate short stack no need , raise 10k enough , if SB call, UTG shove, now need isolate SB and go all in. IF SB call, In flop need standrat contibet 10k , If SB shove- fold, if only call, next check-fold only After this u lose only 20k, and stay 60k it is still work stack.
 
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el_magiciann

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Very good play. You got unlucky that the :ah4: showed up on the board. It's an unfortunate situation for someone holding :kc4: :kd4: . It was a good fold. The idea at this point is to cool yourself down A.S.A.P and get back to the game.

I agree with you sir, it is important to concentrane on next hand and and play to your game. Unlucky though!
 
rock0001

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you could go all in preflop, but im not so sure he was going to fold aj, considering how high were the blinds. you played your hand right as you fold your hand after this terrible flop, i really dont see any mistake you have made, maybe you just became pot committed but so was the small stack after he calls your bet But there is nothing to complain about your play in my opinion.
 
DaBrowner

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Leak in size bet.
Probability that against our KK, opponents will have AA too small against 1 player 0.49%, vs. 6 2,93% , vs. 9 players 4.39%

Our handing, isolate short stack no need , raise 10k enough , if SB call, UTG shove, now need isolate SB and go all in. IF SB call, In flop need standrat contibet 10k , If SB shove- fold, if only call, next check-fold only After this u lose only 20k, and stay 60k it is still work stack.
I agree with this play, to raise 3x to 4x.
 
A

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this is something where variance results in your opponent getting lucky on the flop. you got your opponent to chase with a live A as a roughly 3-1 dog. just got to accept that and move forward to recover.
 
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rumsey182

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I decide to raise to 21K and isolate to the short stack. I get called from the small blind who has around 60K and under the gun folds. The board comes A68 all hearts. And to further my anger here, I do not hold the K of hearts.

to further your anger? a person doing a move they have every right to do angers you? why does it matter you are playing a game just play well and control what you can control
Small blind shoves. After I beg him, he shows AJ and I glared at him with a lot of hate and anger.

I drop to 60K get blinded down to 40-45K and pick up 10-10 and lose flip to AQ for my tournament.
outcome is not important to the process unless he ends up doing something we didn't predict and it proves our assumptions wrong ( or leads us to believe they could be wrong)

you glare with hate and anger,... like seriously what did you think he was going to have? Of course the donk has an A there his play is totally indicative of that

the question is how often does he not have an Ax type hand here

Also saying "for my tourny" is silly unless you win the thing you should expect to bust out lol,.. it seems like you have very unrealistic expectations
 
pistolpetewags11

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to further your anger? a person doing a move they have every right to do angers you? why does it matter you are playing a game just play well and control what you can control

outcome is not important to the process unless he ends up doing something we didn't predict and it proves our assumptions wrong ( or leads us to believe they could be wrong)

you glare with hate and anger,... like seriously what did you think he was going to have? Of course the donk has an A there his play is totally indicative of that

the question is how often does he not have an Ax type hand here

Also saying "for my tourny" is silly unless you win the thing you should expect to bust out lol,.. it seems like you have very unrealistic expectations
I am fine with how the hand played out. I was angry because I felt like I had done enough to get AJ to fold. In reflection, I think my 20K bet is an over bet and I could make it smaller. I think, in my mind though I would agree on shoving KK here.
If I have AK here or the A never hits the board, I continue to chip up here and essentially position myself to the final table. That is where I was frustrated. The outcome of this hand brought me down to 10x and I was forced to wait for a strong hand to push.
Thanks for the insight all.
 
fletchdad

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Good point ITT about betsizing. I missed that.
 
itsmebobd

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Another situational tournament strategy question.
Blinds are at 2K/4K and I am sitting on 80K and I look down at KK in the cut off. UTG is fairly short stacked and limps. I decide to raise to 21K and isolate to the short stack. I get called from the small blind who has around 60K and under the gun folds. The board comes A68 all hearts. And to further my anger here, I do not hold the K of hearts.
Small blind shoves. After I beg him, he shows AJ and I glared at him with a lot of hate and anger.
Dont get mad, get glad, it's free info for later.
I drop to 60K get blinded down to 40-45K and pick up 10-10 and lose flip to AQ for my tournament.
Does anybody feel that maybe shoving KK here should be the only move? I do think AJ folds to an all in, however I also believe that AJ should be folding to 21K and 1/3 or shoving. But in now way do I hate him calling, because in that spot, I always have AA, KK or AK and I move to chip leader in one simple hand. However, this hand broke me and I couldn't survive as a short stack.
I dont think Shoving is the only move, or even the proper move. Looks to me that you played it right, just had a horrid flop and an even worse opponent. Just keep playing it right and mixing it up and you'll be seeing that final table a lot more than people the likes of him :)

Thanks in advance for your advice. Happy Holidays!

Happy Holidays to you too sir! :):D
 
Arjonius

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Making it 21k seems rather high unless there was some kind of unusual table dynamic. I'd tend to make it more like 14-16k. Shoving might work out better on this hand against this SB, but that doesn't mean it's a better play.

Calling 1/3 of his stack with AJ OOP isn't good, but you can't control whether / when your opponents make good and bad plays. Indeed, if you knew his hand before seeing the flop, you'd want him to call - as you said. The SB made a rather questionable call but hit his A on the flop when the odds were against it. So where's the problem?

The outcome of this hand brought me down to 10x
Losing this hand didn't drop you to 10x. Losing it plus folding for the next three orbits did. Those aren't the same thing.
 
Vfranks

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As played, it wasn't terrible. I wouldn't have made the preflop bet so big. I would have made it 12k-16k, then re-evaluated on the flop. That way you can get rid of the hand on the flop and still have room to work with.
Seems the issue here is more of you folding for 3 orbits and letting yourself bind out, you shouldnt be letting that happen. You should be finding a spot to at least try and win the blinds each orbit.
 
trolaAa

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Your opponent has a 60K stack you raise 21K
Even if the flop is unfavorable to him the first three cards I do not think he would give up his hand
I think the right decision and your stack is pushing all in preflop
 
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shoving here would be a mistake. you played your hand the correct way and indeed AJ should fold there.. sometimes you just can't beat the variance.. gl
 
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you made the correct play here m8....that's a correct iso raise from that spot everytiem againist a limper....that limp utg is always a sign of a weak ace or maybe KJ...KT...etc. which your way ahead of....rarely does he have AA there....shoving is a huge mistake from that spot...all in all ya played the hand fine just ul that the ace flopped...on to the next one.
 
theRaven68

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For me, it's well played. The flop was against you.
 
psychotie

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At this Blind sizes not many players (exept big stacks) will limp into a Hand. So imo there is no point in trying to isolate the short stack . I would have just called , cause the hand is so strong , that u can let other players in the game. U safe chips if the A comes and u can raise after the flop , to see what the otheres have.
gl on and off the felts
 
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