JTs vs Q7o

Hi all,

It's my first post, so forgive me if I'm not using the correct terminology.
A friend and I often discuss poker hands and usually we have very similar thoughts on the way hands 'should be' played, but for this one we have very different opinions. So I proposed to ask the question on a poker hand analysis forum to sort it out so that I can show him who's wrong

We play together quite often, so we both have a reasonable good insight on how the other guy plays..

It was a hand we played at the middle stages of a MTT (36players), with 5000 starting chips. At the moment of the hand the blinds were 300/600, no antes.
He's in the BB with 4400 chips (and dealt Q7 off-suit), I'm SB with 11500 (and dealt JT of diamonds).

Everyone at the table is folding, so I'm to speak. I peeked into his stack and then raised to 1800 (3xBB), knowing he would think I'm stealing. Instead of releasing his hand, he claims he had foreseen my raise and raises all in.
For me (and due to the preliminary knowledge of playing often against him), it was an insta-call: at that point the pot is 6200, so I add another 2600 and consider myself priced-in. At that point I believed he was trying to bluff me out of the pot, which was confirmed (I guess) when he showed his cards, and he confirmed afterwards that that was the purpose of the raise.

So now there are three interesting discussion points for us:
1. Did I do wrong raising my JT pre-flop heads-up to 1800, willing to pick up the BB, but knowing I'm probably challenged to put it in 1/3rd of my stack with JT at 49%?
2. I think he should have folded right away, even though there's a big chance I'm stealing.
3. He claims I have no right of calling the all-in after his shove.

I guess neither of us played it great, but I do think he took way too much risk (tournament life with Q7) against me, while I risked only 1/3rd of my stack (with JT-suited)...

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
J

PS: in case you wonder what happened the hand turned out to be:
Flop: K Q 4 rainbow
Turn: 9 --> completing my straight
River: 2
He was out and steaming, I went on to become third

Shove over his blind, he's got like 7 big blinds

Tell him to stop whining i would have just shipped it over him too

1) No, but I would have went all in.

2) He's wrong.

3) You have the right to do anything within the rules of poker. This isn't even bad etiquette. Agreed tell him to quit whining and being a bitch.

as above, but whenever you have to put in one third of your stack or more its better to shove as you have much more fold equity. If you put a third in and get called you're pretty much pot commited anyways.

Its common for raises to be less than 3bb in later stages, like 2bb would be better but thats besides the point, tell your friend to man up.

yea that's an instacall given the situation, if he thought u'd fold to his shove for that little bit over ur initial raise then he obviously has no idea what he's doing...he had no business trying to get u out in that spot, anything ud b willing to raise with in that spot is something u'd b willing to call that little bit more with...you did nothing wrong, good job..

This is a shove preflop BvB (hate the raise)

Thanks all for your insight!
J

like others have said I woulda shoved all in PF but if the whole plan was raise and him to fold or him shove and you call then theres really no difference I dunno i prefer the shove pf as it comes off a lil bit stronger it shows that yes you are shoving something not flash but decent enough to take the punt against the ss, ace or k high for example/

He's <10BB so shove pre.

yes this is also my thinking....what i would have done was just shoved and if he calls he calls....just let the cards play but imo if anyone played the hand "badly" i would have he said he played it worse than you knowing the probability of you calling his shove was pretty high and taking the chance flipping with a dry Q.....him being a pretty big dog there was a real possibility but it also could be looked at like one of those "screw it...im all in" positions for him but either way its not like either one of you guys made total noob plays

he probably guessed he had the best hand in terms of the numbers. he wasn't thinking that the other ppl folded their 4-6os and 7-4os---knowing they'd be a k or q coming up.

He should have just called and let his queen save him.

i would push him in this situation, because hes short-stacked and your odds were very nice. futhermore, u should consider the growing blinds. it's best decision to go all-in.

He should have used the stop and go. If he's shipping here anyway with little to no fold equity, then flat and shove any flop. If you miss, maybe you fold, but if you're never folding anyway (which you're not) then what does it matter.