JJ on the button...

Okay... so I'm playing a 90 player MTT and I'm 11th place with 15 players left. I have about 5k. The blinds are $200/$400. I'm on the button. One raiser in front of me bumped it up to $800 to go. His stack is about the same as mine. I have JJ so I go all in. He calls me with Q J suited and hits a Q on the flop and out I go. Did we both make the right move? Was I to aggressive? Was he a donk? Thanks in advance for the great comments.

Yeah youve only got 12.5 bb shoving is completely standard. On good players who steal you have alot of fold equity since your stacks are both the same size. His call with QJ is pretty terrible as hes dominated by alot of your shoving range. nh run better

Yeah if he has that stack he should probably just openfold QJ and wait for a spot to shove.

Although after he opens and all the money is in plus blinds and antes he probably has to call hoping you have uunderpair and are flipping or he has 2 live cards.

You had him in pretty much the worst shape, as he was dominated but he gets there...it happens.

Tip is if you play more tables you just shove JJ move on to next table, by the time you realise you bust then it doesn't really tilt you at all. I used to get so tilted by watching every card come but now I rarely even watch the result. I do check HH later to see what villains had but it doesn't bother me by then and I can concentrate on my other things.

Yes, you played it exactly as I would have. As said above, you have a TON of fold equity given stack sizes.

Your only move is to reshove, really. If you call a min raise, you are already at a low M. You might as well take a shot with a decent hand which can catapault you up chip leader-boards.

I don't think I EVER fold JJ in this type of situation.

maybe you should have just raised three times the big blind and then went all in if the flop comes with low cards. the 3 times raise gives you a chance to steal the blinds and if you do get a call you get a good chance to win a pot
adsthepro

Our stack'll be in pretty sad shape if we call the minraise, or raise 3x the minraise, and fold the flop, our M is already < 10, so we'll have virtually no fold equity on any future hand.

I probably would have done the same thing unless I knew he was super tight and I was racing at best.

-Raymond

The villains call is awful. I've got no problem with their min raise as this can often win the blinds or leave them options postflop; but if they are prepared to go all in they should bet stronger in the first place.

Enough of them, what about your jacks? Good, solid and standard play - you just got the wrong end of a 2 to 1 chance. Most times you are playing into the kind of hand the villain had and they will fold - you get their chips, blinds and antes. Once in a while you are falling right into a KK/AA trap, but there's not much to do about that. Your only alternative to going all in is to fold (but you are not doing that with a top 2% hand). Any calling or small raising means you are prepared to fold a flop bet, and you will very often be facing a make or break decision with a board that hasn't helped/looks dangerous/has overcards etc.

JJ short stacked is a easy shove. Geussing ur playin small stakes for a idiot to be called u with QJ unless he was super stacked. IF so then unlucky. JJ is a monster IMO, look to take advantage of the situation instead of worrying about.

Dont worry! You did all correctly, but unfortunately completely to avoid coinflips and similar situations it will not turn out, but on a distance you always will be ahead.

me if I were in his situation do not even expect anything all in the blinds and began to eat me with a monster hand would be given all in without any problem

Thanks all. All great comments. This site is awesome.

i would be more comfortable with u making 4x bet instead of shoving...
I recommend 4x bet to JJ and QQ, and for KK and AA i recommend going allin instead of 4x bet...
Few good players consider making 5x bet with KK instead of allin...
And yes, ur opponent calling ur shove seems like a donk move, but his move might be also a result of ur table impression !!! So cant say exactly until u tell me wat ur table impression was...

What on earth does this mean?

You made the right move and he didn't, it happens and that's poker for you...

With a 5K stack you're going to raise to 3200 (when you say 4x, I assume you're 4xing the minraise rather than bb) against a guy who minraised and only has 4200 behind? Do you think we have FE here? What are you doing if he shoves? If he calls, what flops are we folding w 1800 behind?

I would say that JJ is the worst pocket pair and it wilnt win often in the raised pot. and i think you might have heard the proverb for the playing the JJ. "There are three ways to play it , but all of them are wrong" . I wouldnt definetly go all in with JJ ( expect at low stacks)!

Hi spidy , love to see your post. See here JJ's performance. I always hate those JJs but raising here at the button position will be the better option than allin.

Why? Please explain relative to the following:

1. If minraiser calls
2. If minraiser shoves
3. If one of the blinds raises/shoves/calls
4. If we see a dry flop
5. If we see a wet flop

If the word "fold" appears in relation to any of the above, how are we going to play our tiny stack having put a decent chunk of our already short stack into the middle and then folded?

Yes, you played it right, he made the mistake so according to Sklansky you won....you should give him a call and ask him to refund your buy in. lol
j/k

In all seriousness you did play it right and being short stacked, shoving with JJ is standard, especially against a player like that. He just got lucky.

With a stack as short as 15 or so big blinds, being aggressive and 3 bet shoving TT+ is a good move, ESPECIALLY when your opponent is not deep stacked.

It means you are saying that he made a good decision by moving allin. If it is why he would lost it, and there is no use in crying that he(opp) made a bad decision or you feeling unlucky. I said to raise and you asked me to explain it, the reason for reraising is to show the very strong hand and he would definetly think about what he is holding. Allin at button posn so he may thought you would try to steal something, so he called it. Anyway i am just saying what comes to my mind and i am not saying that it was the correct one, and i dont blame anyone too...

i cant say u were wrong to shove all in with a pair of jacks when the player before u raises 800 pre flop, but remember a pair of jacks is only a pair... I would call his raise and see the flop, so I can make a more imformed desision on whether Iwould shove all in or not. after all u made it to the bubble u have a big enough stack to wait out a few hands. time to take a breather and get ready to battle for first place. hope this helps good luck to you.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone here, but OP is asking a serious and valid couple of questions, so I think we owe it to him to give him good advice - imo, calling and raising (to less than a shove) are both bad options.

1. Villain made an awful play to minraise w an M<9. With that stack size, he really has only two choices preflop - fold or shove. With a shove, he has some fold equity - with a minraise, he's begging to get raised by an equal sized stack, a bigger stack, or a desparate stack, and his QJ is not strong enough to call that raise. I might understand a minraise if he's holding AA, since then he'd really WANT to get shoved over (but I never like making this play myself).

2. Hero has an M<9, and is in pretty much the same boat as Villain - he has only two choices preflop, fold or shove. The minraise from Villain is pretty suspicious - it's either a monster (KK+,AK) that wants to get shoved over, or Villain is a complete and total fish (and we already know which it was). Raising to less than a shove is insane - our stack size is already too small, we'll be crippled if we simply raise and fold either pf or on the flop. Calling ain't that great either, our M already sucks, calling and then folding either pf or on the flop will drop our M even further, and we need to be willing to gamble that we're flipping against a strong A (and if we knew what his holding was, we'd take this opportunity to shove every single time it comes up, we're a 67% favorite pf), or simply fold and look for a better spot if we read the minraise as strength and don't want to gamble (like most people in this thread, I don't read it as strength, so I'm shoving).

3. Once Hero shoves, I don't think Villain has any choice but to call - but he shouldn't be in this spot in the first place, he shouldn't have minraised this holding.

So, OP's questions are:

1. Did we both make the right move? No, Villain did not, Hero did.
2. Was I too aggressive? No, standard, unless you read the minraise as strength - and even if you do, you may have to gamble here.
3. Was Villain a donk? I prefer the term "fish", but you say "toe-may-toe", I say "toe-mah-toe", same diff - yes.

Played that hand correctly it was his mistake then got you to lose, you dominated him and he hit a 3 outer

JJ is a powerful starting hand especially to QJ. not sure what that guy was thinking considering AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ would dominate. i think he was just playing wreckless

I think you made the correct move, but unfortunate you got beat. I hate J Q because I can never win with it, but always lose against it . Best of luck in future tourney's.

You had no other choice, QJ just got lucky.. But a minraise from his position could have looked like AA-KK but he didn't have it and he lucked out with a horrible play.

With your chip stack you had no other reasonable option but to go all-in. You do not have the chips to spare to make a measured raise or even to smooth call. The fact that you lost to a three outer does not change anything.If you had a lot more chips then either smooth call and play it out or fold.