I stay in first place but....

OK for like every tourney i play i end up being in first by staying conservative,but i always end up getting pockets A's or pocket K's and im forced to call an all in.I end up losing to a nut str8 every time!.I will still have chips left but then i get fed A's again and lose.WTF! So my question would be if you are deep in any tournament and in first do you call pocket A's and K's?


Oh yeah i fold J's and lower and depending on my stack i might call Q's.

You should be aggressive, in the right situations, when you have the chip lead. Never fold AA when you have the lead, and I would say never fold KK either. 90% of the time QQ is a call, and JJ isn't too far away from that.

Perhaps you losing because you're folding your chip lead away. You're never gonna win if you don't like the look of AA in your hand.

Like to try keep the pots smaller later on. Not always the hands you play that keeps you in, but the ones you can lay down to find a better spot with.

@Muscle man,i never folded either and the all ins were pre flop and i still lost.
@Mrpoker, i understand that completely,but who folds this in the best position and the best or second best preflop cards.

most(95%) of the time i fold i wasn't gonna win any way.

The fact of the matter is when you are deep in a MTT, you are going to have to win coin flips and you're sometimes going to have the best hand pre-flop and end up getting knocked out because someone hit a lucky straight or flush. It can be tremendously frustrating to lose with AA or KK when you're deep but if you keep getting yourself into that position, those premium hands should win over the long run.

You should be aggressive pre flop and than if you get rer., but not pushed in..I'd prob. advise just calling to see what the flop is and than bet agg. post flop on. If you are shoved in, than you almost have no choice but to call, unless you were like in the bubble and the stack was bigger than you.

Of course, if your getting called when you have aces or kings you should be happy. Having AA/KK does not give you a right to win everytime.

Hold on, your folding AA/KK if your on the bubble if someone has you covered?

imo never fold AA KK preflop!!!!! yes probably sometimes you lose but i'm sure 75 on 100 you win!!!!!

i allways call aces and kings,no matter what...i just can't folded...and you just were really unlucky,it will be better i'm sure about that

I use to have the same issue, I posted a thread on here and got some sound advice and with some adjusting to my game I saw a change.

My advice would be never fold AA or KK pre-flop but as stated above play them aggressively. If you are in position don't just call or min raise, you should shove at this point. Most hands will fold to you. Know the power of chip leader and in the right position use it! You will win more times than you lose here. Now if you just call or min raise or even 3 bet you take the risk of getting called with a weaker hand that is made better by the end of the hand. Know that your hand is the best pre-flop so play like it.

Note: If you happen to start light by just calling or a small raise and you see a flop, know when you are beat and lay it down! Yeah it will be hard but in the long run you will get farther.

I don't know why anyone would fold AA or KK preflop. you're all liars if you're saying you would based on certain situations. AA or KK may get beat by a flush or something so you'd want to isolate. Thinking your AA or KK will lose before the flop is dealt is so tilty.

There is a big difference folding pre-flop and laying a hand down post. Didn't imply to fold those, but dumping those when the board texture just doesn't look that great for you.

I would and have done so.
Yes indeed.....I folded AA and KK preflop several times.
You may guess where and why I did that.
The answer is simple.

Im guessing that you were playing games with a flat payout structure when you had a nice stack and you where able to fold your way into the paid places. That is the only place where folding AA/KK is correct that I can think of.

Exactly...satelites.
Lately, in the 5th anniversary SM, I got KK and it costed me.
Raise, 3-bet, 4-bet, 5-bet AI preflop.
Just before we were all-in I realised I was most certainly running into rockets.
I was right and got severely crippled.
Well, if I can't lay down KK there I will certainly not do it anywhere else, except in satelites at the moment I realise I can easily fold myself into the money.

ABSOLUTELY - I am calling every time - especially as chip leader. Those guys shoving are getting to a level of desperation (depending on stack) and you have to assume chances are good they do not have a premium hand (though still possible). You don't get sucked out "every time" - it just seems like it because it leaves quite an impression on the brain. Such as:

Me and the other chip leader go head to head on a shove - he has Cowboys and I have Rockets - he rivers a King. Everyone else went to final table - I went out the door. Never seen before or since but if he walked through my door right now I'd know who he was. This was last year.

Final table on the bubble - Rockets again versus AK and KK. Over half of the total tournament chips are in the middle. We flip over and a guy announces the Aces have it. I looked over and said "Dont be too sure." Flop brings the one out K. Poor guy with big slick threw his cards in the muck before the flop. Good thing a straight or flush didn't come up or he'd have puked. Ran in to the KK guy months later (sat down right next to me in another tourney) and I asked, "Aren't you the guy who flopped a K on my Aces at the final table and bubbled me out?" He said he didn't know - I said, "Yeah, you are - I've been looking for you." Knocked him out of that tourney, which I went on to win.

So anyway - yeah it happens - not all the time, but it leaves an impression and can seem like it. Keep calling. You will most likely lose one out of four of those, but if you lose four in a row, there's eight wins you are due for the math to hold - which, in the end, it will**. So keep calling.
BTW, since shorter stacks are shoving lesser hands than usual - their 89s actually has a better chance of cracking your AA than if they held Big Slick. You are still golden though - call those bastards

**DISCLAIMER - Yeah I know - stupid example for the infinite continuum of math - just trying to get it down it's basest level

WHY NOT JUST GO ALL IN PRE FLOP at least 80% of the time every one fold and it will keep all of those staraight or flush drawls from even getting in the pot.

Exactly. People on bubble are less likely to chase unless they are desperate in which case they'll call you anyway. Allowing 4-5 hands in just gives a two pair or better a chance to hit and makes it more worthwhile to chase if small hopeless stack can get 4x his stack and sit pretty they'll push it in

A situation to fold AA or KK preflop:
19 people of which 18 paid. You are currently ranked 18

UTG: 5BB ALL in (LAG)
CUT: >30BB Raise all in (TAG)
Button (you): 30BB AA

You could fold here cause if call and lose you are out. This type of situation I would think is ok to fold. (If you were shorter stacked maybe you would want to call to give yourself a better chance at FT). And even then I dont think you can be criticized too much for a call.

Last week I had a 2 hands in different games with KK and lost out <5 to cash (one to pocket 10, the other A4 off). From the coments I recieved you should be thankful when you get called or pushed back with these hands. If you are nervous about it look to play them more aggressivly.

The more I learn about poker I see you cant control the cards but you can do your best to control the EV.

Above situation you always call

Pascal,

After letting it sit for a few hours I can agree that the example probably is not the best. Mostly cause in the example you are low in raking and need to make a move soon to make a run at FT.

What about if it were a matter of placing with a big jump in $? Situation where If you sit pat you jump up a spot for a difference of hundreds to thousands of dollars? or can risk it for a slight positive EV and a possible loss?

To loose all that would need to happen is if KK an A hit or if AA one of the two of them get lucky.

The example I gave is likely not the best. But more or less saying in order to fold AA/KK pre-flop in a tourney it would be a move more for a bump in ranking/actual $ vs a positive EV move.

Chip-leader and pocket AA...or KK....I think I'm playing strong 100% of time! Let the chips and cards fall where they may!

Call here. You want to play to win and have a big chance to win lots of chips (more than double up). The big stack shoving looks like an isolate also. AA,KK,QQ would just flat call here to induce more action. Also even if you don't beat the short stack, you will beat the big stack and almost double up. If you don't beat the big stack but beat the short stack, you'll be in 18th and no harm done. The chance of loosing to both is very low. So this is an easy call.

IMO you should never play like this, always play for first. Folding AA/KK will not help you acheive this.

just fold 100% of hands, can't lose if you don't play imo

I realllllly hate it when I can get all in preflop when I have aces or kings...

And OMG, some idiot goes and calls!!!! Don't you hate that?

What are you guys talkin about? AA is just a pair! I'm never putting all my chips in if I don't get to see all 5cards first!

And I'm insta-folding if > "I've got a feeling"