I cant seem to get passed the top 100 players......

I will be goin along good withe 30000 or 40000 chips and i will losse with AA to a j9 or somethin and loose my cool then next thing i know im sittin there with 2500 left sayin what the haeck happened.Any suggestions on how to get past this point

I hear ya. I hate that too. Normally what I do is I try to just play when I'm a blind when I get to that point. Unless of course I have an awesome hand. Give that a try

Usually, I find that with 100 remaing or so, this is a good time to tighten up a bit. Of course, this depends on average stack sizes, how close the bubble is, the blind levels ect. IMO you should focus your aggression on stacks that are 1/2 to 2/3 your size. Little stacks will be very volatile in that they will push with a wider range of hands because they are desperate to double up, and larger stacks (2/3 more to double your size) will also call with a wider range because they can take the hit if they lose.

Also, it sounde like you can tilt pretty easily. Keep in mind, that AA is not the stone nuts. You can't expect to win with them every time. AA can lose a big pot just as easily as 72. Just relax, and remember that just because you have alot of chips and a strong hand, that dosn't necessarily mean that you will win the pots tou enter. The fewer pots you enter, the more ammo you have when you do hit the flop hard. Just be patient.

Say there are only 100 left and 30000 is slightly above average. Say the bubble is set at 75 players. At this point, you will only need to stay in the tourney for roughly 1 hour in order to get ITM. Play tighter, play position, and don't be afraid to let a hand go if you don't feel right about it. losing 10k post flop is alot better than busting short of the bubble.

Also, pay good attention to the happenings on other tables in the tourney. Especially the tables with a few short stacks on them. Pick a mid stack and set yourself the gloal of staying bigger stacked than him/her and not busting before said player. Little goals like these will give you something to work towards and help you keep calm about certain aggrevating situations.

And if you still end up getting cut down to 2500, don't panic. Just wait for a good hand. And to clarify, any Ace is not a good hand. A7os is garbage, I'd rather go with 10 J tha A7. If you push with A7, you will be called by any A on the table and will most likely be dominated. 10 J (as an example) is much stronger here as you will most likely have two live cards and good drawing oppritunities.

So practice patience, position, and be sure to have a good awareness of the whole picture (what's going on elsewhere in the tourney), and that 30000 should get you into the money.

verry good information kaahk...iv been playing for about a year now..3 months hardcore..everyday and excatly once u start geting closer to that bubble alot of people tend to play sloppy and loose trying to double up and be comfortable esspesily with those stacks under you..postion is key in poker..thats about it..if ur in good position chip wise..and close to tthat bubble..play only blinds..excatly..losing10k preflop is better than losing alot more and going on tilt..not making that bubble...keep ya head up :P

Thank you foulkown! I know this is just general info, and situations vary, but I hope this can be helpful to others. I personally adapted this into my own play ( I used to be a blaster near the bubble and usually went broke) and have since made many more cashes than I had previously.

i agree that you should tighten up around 100 people but you should never not play any hands

Uh... how big of a field are we talking about?
With 35K in chips, that's a field of maybe 2,300'ish players? So you're in the money already?
What stakes?

I guess the big question is, what's your M at this point?

If you're stacking PF with A/A, bummer. But if you're stacking post flop with an over pair when you have a huge M that's a different story.

I completely get what you're saying and you're pretty much correct, but I would not employ this strategy. Unless you're desperate for that little bit of money that you get from barely breaking the bubble, then you need to be aggressive and play for the final table, rather than just the money. Generally, in MTT, the payouts spike up once you get to the final table, whereas getting barely into the money makes you very little money at all.

A lot of players get scared and just try to make the money, so don't become one of them. You need to get aggressive (when you have position), and start stealing some blinds, and steadily building your stack up. Folding all but premium hands depends way too much on luck, because you will wind up not getting them most of the time, and then when you finally do get them, everyone will know that you have them and just fold, because you'll be so easy to read. Poker players aren't stupid. If you fold 15 hands in a row and then raise, you won't get action unless someone else has a monster. Get aggressive, and stop hoping to get lucky. If you get AA and lose, take a deep breathe, and play good poker. It's lucks fault that your aces got cracked. It's your own fault that you let that one hand destroy your entire tournament.

I agree with silverslugger, ITM is a rotten goal to shoot for. If you tighten up too much just to make the money, other players will recognize that, fold when you raise, and when you do ITM...your stack will be so low that you cant reach the next level without significant luck. Because of the top-heavy weighting of the payouts, i would rather FT once, than just ITM several times. With that in mind, you should still play only selective hands, in the right position, etc/etc...but you must be willingly to take chances. Stealing blinds is CRITICAL at this point. But also remember, pocket rockets is only ONE PAIR. Be prepared to fold. Also, practice letting the bet-timer count all the way down before you act (check/raise/fold) when you are in the hand....this is equivalent to what our mother has always said "take a deep breath and count to ten." You will be less likely to make a rash decision if you force yourself to think it over. good luck

I agree with silver too. I know when I play in a MTT i set goals for myself..
Goal#1: Make Money
Goal#2: Final Table
Goal#3: Top 4
Goal#4: WIN
Silver is right.. with my MTT experience anyway the money really isn't worth it for your time of play unless you reach the final table. But i set a goal for myself to make the top 27 just because in MY mind if your at an avg chip stack, it turns into a 3 table SnG. Im not saying thats what it is because clearly it's not, but it's just a piece of mind. But sometimes making the final table sometimes just isn't enough. The pay in 9th is nothing compared to the pay for 1st. Ive seen that the top 4 are the payouts to really try for and if your fortunate enough to make it that far then in my book you've won.

Play tight, be patient, go with your gut, bluff when the pot is worth taking, but dont get careless. Don't worry about the other people and their chip stacks, worry about yourself and play your game.

The way I see it. GL in your future tournaments

Big stack at the bubble doesn't mean a whole lot. It has happened to me that I barely make the bubble, and go on to win the tourney, or place very well. We all see this often. So first and foremost you have to make the bubble. While it would be nice to have the huge stack at that point, don't fret that yet. Often once the bubble breaks, the play gets very loose, and you can at that point float through several payout levels till you get the right situation. We see this over and over and over.

Play solid, think straight, things will work out.

Don't freak at the suckouts, enjoy them if you do the sucking, and brush them aside if they are done to you. Tilt control is important. You don't have to shove AA. Whereas if you get to be shortstack, and the blinds are about to blow you out, you are in a position where you have to take your best guess, and shove. The big statistician in the sky will seek an even distribution of that suckout balance over the long run. Winning and losing streaks skew that distribution, and it will return toward average eventually.

Near the bubble note that everyone there has at least the same talent you have shown. In many cases that talent will be luck, today, in that particular tourney, but don't take too many of the remaining players for granted. This means you have to play even smarter. This is where your poker trackers come in handy.

Notes help. If you are getting near the bubble, it is likely you have been sitting at your table for a long time, and seen many hands. You have feels on each of the players. Those feels should be in your notes.

Take an extra moment each time you are faced with a big bet. Is this the hand you want to put your tourney life on? Are you sure? Check your notes, check your position, check your stacks, and the stacks of everyone involved. Check you position in the tourney. Remember that you must be patient, and ask yourself if you are being impatient at all.

Sometimes, tightening up near the bubble is the absolutely wrong thing to do. This is a time when everybody else is tightening up, and if you think that through, wouldn't loosening up be generally a good thing ? You will be surprised once you break through this thinking.

Last and best solution??!!??

Get that great rush of cards you have been waiting for......

I feel your pain to dude when that happens but the important thing is to not lose your cool that will definately throw you off your game and may will lose.Control your emotion and you'll do fine and everyone lose to bad hands don't worry about it.

I have been in your situation many times..The reason you have lost all your chips is because you so mad that you start to bet with stupid hands.
Take a deep breath and sit back for awhile. Let the rest of the donks kill themselves first...After you have calmed down you will start to play smart again and begin to win chips and pass the 100 mark....
Hang in there and you will make it. GL to you.

that has happened to me so many times. i don't know why, its like i get all ansy and have to make a play and i end up making a dumb one usually. Or i tighten up and every one can read me easily, i just can't seem to find that happy middle ground when i get to that point. good question and good answers, im sure they will help me.

I cant think u guys enough.It is easier said than done but i feel if i can do what u suggest than i think i can get to the money.I am in a 2 tourneys tonight and i will b lettin u know how it goes.I gotta get to that healthy stack first but i seem to get up there in half my touneys if i dont get donked by the fishies.Also sometimes i get to watchin that average stack and start to get nervous and next thing i know im forcing hands,dumbest thing i should do probably,but i will catch myself doing that.I guess i really need work on my patience,cant get all the chips in 15 min.Thx all for your insight

Just to clarify, I'm not saying "stop playing and just try to make the money". I'm saying "don't play un-ncecssary hands in unfavourable positions, against either desperate small stacks, or loose big stacks.". There is a difference. Of course when you are dealt even medium strength hands in later positions when it is folded around to you, go for a raise and try to pick up some blinds. If you get called, just don't get silly for no good reason. At this point the blinds are high enough that even if you do wait for a premium hand, raise and just pick up the blinds and ante's, there's at least one more orbit of survival, and if you are 20+ X BB, that is just some more padding.

I know the scale of pay is heavily favoring the FT. But IMO of this guy's problem, I'd figure he's not even making the money, and a FT is not even on his radar at this point. We all want to win, but when the OP is saying he's not even making the money, I'm trying to help him get there. You can't run before you walk, and you can't make the FT if you don't even make the bubble.

Oh, BTW Bengal Boy, If you are still getting "donked out" near the final stages of a tourney you might be playing in limits that allow that sort of things. I mean, at $3, $5 and even some $25 buy-ins, there are a few better players, but at these levels, alot of people can afford to be donks. There are donks at all levels,, of course, just more of them at lower levels. I don't advocate playing above your bankroll limits or your comfort and skill zone, but if you're playing at $3-$10 levels, there is going to be alot of calling of all-ins with J 9, even at the finat lable.

Just for some added confidence: Getting to the late stages of these FRs (1,5K-10K) is an achievement itself. Usually you must have done something right or had unnatural luck. With the last 200 standing the game improves considerably. As said, opponents do have some skills here, too. Patience is one of the keys but you need to show guts, too. Get a read on the players at your table, esp the two players left of you. Sometimes you need to steal from the co/button..... - often SB and BB will fold to any bet and any two blanks can do at this stage, prepare to bail if reraised though (don't shove with thin air too often either).

Once you get to this point you need to pay added attention to the individuals at your table. Up until this point you are probably getting shuffled from table to table so often that you aren't there long enough to get a read on anyone or for anyone to get a read on you for that matter. Make sure you mix up your bets. Don't let yourself fall into a pattern that is easy to pick up on. Stay calm if you lose a big hand because you are just one hand away from getting those chips back or more. You have to keep your head at this point.

Well i fisnished 97 (out of 5000).I am so pissed.I got donked out yet again.Got rivered out with a dude that shoved A4 on the turn caught the staright on the river.(i had A's n K's The flop went K 3 A 5 2 with no flush draw)Had him dominated and yet again im sittin here pissed.I could not have played much better.(I know u can always play better but I ws feelin my game like never before)I am about done with these freerolls.There should belike a dog the bounty hunter type of crew to go get these fools and take thier computers untill the can pass a poker test.I play by the rules and the donkey prevails.Makes my feel like I am not ready to get there and when it happens it happens,and the thing is i am not forcing it,its just not comin my way.)I have my mind set on gettin to the final table in one of these and am not givin in now.Hopefully this makes me a better player out of all of this nonsense.Maybe its time for me to make that deposit,but I really want to prove to myself I can do it.Theres not much ican really do besides study up and play,play,play.And i need to work on keepin my cool,you can say its just a game,but when u love it and put all i have in to somethin and seems to be a lot more than that.Reading your responses has helped a ton and hope u guys/gals keep sendin them my way.Thx all

[quote=Bengals_Boy;1078780]
i know its discouraging but keep pluggin along u seem to play pretty well to get inside the 100 mark so just think some where u should of played some hands that u didnt or get more aggresive a little bit inside the 100 because u battle for 3 hours for 20cents so take a chance on a few hands u normally wouldnt play not sayin go all in on them but blind in on a few u may be surprized and hit a few and in position try stealing a few of the opponents blinds and if all else feels sit back and wait probably another freeroll starts in 15 minutes .

[quote=Bengals_Boy;1078780]Lol well we've all experienced this type of horsesh1t on a couple of the big poker rooms haven't we?! I'm not even going to try and work out the crazy odds of villain hitting that draw because it will just depress me further.

The question is, is it possible to avoid these rather obvious "interferences" by the hosting software? Often I'd say no, it's not. If you're playing good poker then you'll be getting ur chips well in which is exactly what it's looking for.

However I'd always say that the ONLY ways for you to drop out of any tournament is to shove all your chips in on one hand or get blinded out. If you can possibly avoid shoving all your chips in then you greatly reduce the risk of dropping out.

AK is a perilous hand for shoving with any time esp on FT and PS. AQ equally so. They will get you into all manner of trouble.

When the board came K 3 A and you see your big 2 pair and the chance of a full house I'd say think for a minute. You just paired both your cards at odds of 3 in 48 each roughly. Combined that's 1 in 256 event ! That doesn't / shouldn't happen often with random cards so my view is "hang on something is hooky here !" At this stage I'm now wondering of villain is holding 33. That would be a classic "action hand", your 2 pair vs his trips.

When the 5 comes down on the turn K 3 A 5 we can now see a straight appearing. We could now strat to think that villain has 44 or 22 or A2, A4 The assessment depends on what you have seen of this player - i.e does he bet hard with Ace rag?. If he has been playing Ace Rag hands then we can assume he's a donk and that the system at some point will seek to give him a leg up. This could be that point.

His shove at this point would have led me to believe he holds either 33 or A4, A2 with 33 being most likely.

As good as AK looks at this point I'd have to ask myself do I really want to commit all my chips into the pot. I'd be asking myself what hands could he hold that I am still beating but which would inspire him to shove all-in?

A5 and A3 are good candidates but if you raised strong preflop (as u should have done) then he has to be worried about an AK holding or AA, KK. If he held a good pair like QQ, JJ, TT then equally he has to realise he is beat with the AK on the board.

Assuming you bet post flop and he called then he must have had reason for that looking at a K 3 A flop. Could be he had KQ, could be 33 and could be Ax. Most likely it's one of the latter 2.

In true poker odds of course your flopped 2 pair is enormously favourite to anything he holds barring the 33 and AA, KK all of which are statistically unlikely. But as we know, online poker sites are riddled with bad beats and hands like this one. So you have to factor this in.

The bottom line is that if you invested the lion's share of your stack preflop and postflop then you already put yourself in an undefendable position in regards to these kind of hands. I've done it myself loads of times. I sit around waiting for a decent hand, AKs pops up and I see red mist. All I can think about is getting my chips in and looking forward to either doubling up or trippling up and how far ahead I will be and how far ITM I will be once that happens. The greed takes over. It costs me my MTTs every time. The Bad Beat monster thrives on your greed.

So, with AK (and being such a fickle hand!) I'm not looking to end up having to shove all-in. Ideally I'd like to just skim a nice flop pot with it and finish the hand there rather than go ballistic with it. So I'm not going to whack too much in the pot preflop, maybe 3xBB but no more. I'd rather risk getting too many customers than narrowing down to 1 customer and get into an all-in testosterone battle for my MTT with such a fickle hand.

When the flop comes K 3 A I'm skeptical of what just happened. I like it, but it defied normal card odds and it shows all the hallmarks of a suck-out hand. If the villain is still interested after that flop then there is definitely something fishy to worry about. After K 3 A 5 and a shove from villain I'm definitely worried about a suck-out. I see the danger of A2 and A4 and 33 and 55. I might be ahead at this point but I certainly can't guarantee having the nuts.

So it comes down to this.

If at some point in your big MTT you are going to have to shove all your chips in and roll the dice, what kind of hand do you want to be holding when that time comes,

A Fullhouse - defintely
A Good Flush - Yes sir
A Straight - Yes as long as there's no flush or paired board
Trips - Yes as long as theres no straight or flush draws

2 Pair/1 pair - Hell no

No, after all the hours invested in the game to that point I don't want to be risking the entire thing holding just 2 pair ! Even if they are As and Ks.

It's just not enough. Duck out, pick a different spot and wait for your better hand.

If you get short stacked then obv that's a totally different matter. With a good stack though and having done all that work to grow it I hjust wouldn't want to risk it all on 1 hand holding just 2 pair. Just my view.

In truth, as I write this (c-r-a-p?) I'm mindful that I've done exactly what you did countless times and been sucked-out as a result. So I'm going to think harder myself before shoving/calling all-in without a top hand and see if that helps my game any.

Cheers

don't just call down to river or call all-in bets unless you KNOW you have it. people are looking to double up off of you.

TIGHTEN UP don't loosen up cause u have the money, you have given your self a lot more time to see good hands. use to your advantage don't get to greedy, it will cost u large chunks of chips. GL.

if you have one of the highest chip stacks in the top 100, play really tight. only play high pocket pairs until you are in the money. if you lose going all in with pocket rockets, just tell yourself that you played as well as you could and move on.

I will include ur suggestions in my next tourney and think u all for ur time and help.I just need to keep a level head and be patient.

I said this on another freeroll-related thread but I will repeat it again here: You have to play in FR's or low buy-in games and look at them as having a little fun with an off chance of winning a little $$, and you can't continually get upset with not finishing ITM because no matter how well you play, the odds are not in your favor that you will finish in that top .13% that gets paid on bodog. (That's .13%, NOT 13% or 1.3%!!)

As has been stated many times, it takes both luck and skill to win a freeroll against 4999 other players, so don't get too worked up when it doesn't happen! (This is one of the reasons that a lot of better players refuse to even fool with FR's at all-it's not worth the time and aggrivation for such a little payout that you might win, but I enjoy swimming in the minefield!) If you are getting upset by getting close, chances are you are tightening your game when the ITM number is getting close, and the other players will take advantage of that if you let them. Loosen up and relax, and if you get a bad beat-BIG DEAL! There's always another game somewhere!

I know this is directed towards another user but thank you puppyfeet. I just finished 94th out of 9000 on a Pokerstars NL freeroll. I was running low on chips and the blinds were starting to eat me up so I went all in AK suited and was beat by AK suited when he hit a flush. I'm not sure if it was the right play or not.. but your comment brought me back down to earth and I'm not as disappointed anymore. The more I play the more I learn so I got something out of it. 2nd top 100 finish since I started playing not much but I'm improving

I used to have a similar issue to yours in that I'd go out around 100th, a lot of times on a bad beat. The thing is though, you're bound to take a few bad beats every now and then. It happens. If you can make peace with this, and not start freaking out about how everyone is a donk and how they're so bad, then you'll become a much better player. If someone makes a weird move, there's a reason for it. Even if they call you with bottom pair, it might just mean they made a bad read, not that they are a horrible player. People try to make hero calls. I'd like to think I'm not a donk, and I've called with bottom pair before (and been effective at calling bluffs a fair amount of the time). At the same time, when that doesn't work and you're up against top 2, you can look like a donk. Just because someone makes a bad play doesn't mean they're a bad player. Try to stay calm, and accept that this stuff happens. If you make peace with getting bad beats and don't let it faze you, you're level of play will undoubtably go up. Keep your chin up, you're doing fine.

I finnally cashed in a tourmey on full tilt but mit was a raaz freeroll and i wanna get it in holdem butm that will do 4 now

wut??





Drunk posts are funny.

Yea i was buzzed after a long tourney....It happens!!!I know that the odds arent in my favor but i want to build a bankroll and dont want to deposit quite yet.I tell myself if i cant get in the cash in a freeroll then i should be in the real tables.Im just goin to keep tryin to cash in these freerolls untill i build a bankroll of atleast $30.Its not like I dont have money to deposit I just wanna pull a Ferguson.BUt i will not donate my winnigns to charity.Im goin to give it a few more weeks and if i dont get to 50 or so i prolly will make the deposit but i dont wanna give in.

i AM IN BODOG 2:40 PM FREEROLL WITH 112,000,WITH 51 PLAYERS LEFT(63 PLAYERS CASH)OUT OF 3885 PLAYERS.iTS ABOUT TIME I DID IT IN HOLDEM AND i DONT THINK I COULD HAVE DID IT WITHOUT THE HELP OF U ALL.tHANK YOU GUYS AND NOW IM GOIN TO TRY TO WIN THIS SON OF A BIACH.i WILL REPLY BACK WITH MY FINAL POSITION.THANX FOR THE HELP ALL NOW ITS TIM ADD TO THIS BANKROLL .

Good plan....I'm doing that too and it works.
Stay patient.

Please do NOT write in BOLD - it's a strain for the eyes and you are screaming .
WTG on your achievement tho - keep it up and continue to work on your game.

[quote=TheSkeptic;1078913]WTG Bengals! (Can't believe I said that I'm such a huge Browns fan) Great that you followed the advice in here...this is such an awesome forum. And to you Skeptic,wow. Imo that was very well written. Pleasure to read, and a good way to look at AK. I will definately view this hand differently next time it's dealt to me.

Remember what TJ Cloutier had to say about pocket aces. They're good for winning a small pot or losing a big one. If you start to tilt, back off. Consider sitting out a few hands. I've found I can go on tilt when my premium hand loses to some junk and then, just like you, all of the sudden most of my chips have evaporated!