how badly did i play this hand?

I

indahood193

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i went into the 3 way play as chip leader with about 100k, player 1 to my right had about 70k and player 2 to my left about 90k. i played awful and came 3rd. like really, really awful. this was quite a big pot, how should i have played it? barrel the turn to get all jacks/ draws to fold? opinions are welcome!

oops 1st one was the wrong hand here it is:

pokerstars Hand #95879816610: Tournament #706864072, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (1500/3000) - 2013/03/20 19:03:29 ET
Table '706864072 3' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: demondoink (97286 in chips)
Seat 7: 11ales11 (105576 in chips)
Seat 9: annie16 (67138 in chips)
demondoink: posts the ante 300
11ales11: posts the ante 300
annie16: posts the ante 300
demondoink: posts small blind 1500
11ales11: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to demondoink [4h Qh]
annie16: folds
demondoink: raises 4500 to 7500
11ales11: calls 4500
*** FLOP *** [5h Ad Js]
demondoink: bets 9000
11ales11: calls 9000
*** TURN *** [5h Ad Js] [9h]
demondoink: checks
11ales11: bets 24000
demondoink: calls 24000
*** RIVER *** [5h Ad Js 9h] [9c]
demondoink: checks
11ales11: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
demondoink: shows [4h Qh] (a pair of Nines)
11ales11: shows [Kd Ts] (a pair of Nines - Ace+King kicker)
11ales11 collected 81900 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 81900 | Rake 0
Board [5h Ad Js 9h 9c]
Seat 1: demondoink (small blind) showed [4h Qh] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: 11ales11 (big blind) showed [Kd Ts] and won (81900) with a pair of Nines
Seat 9: annie16 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
O

OniGamer

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Ok I'll take a crack at this. Take what I say with a grain of salt since I'm one of the more amateur members here, someone may be able to give better feed back than me.

In the pocket, I would have raised more then 7500 since you were going for the steal. The BB only has to call 3k for a 16k pot, meaning he had huge odds and would run with just about anything. I personally would have made a pot sized bet, that way you would have a better time putting him on a range when the flop came. With your size bet you really have no idea what he has.

The flop.
You made a pretty standard continuation bet, and only because you showed weakness before the flop it wasn't very effective. If you bet harder pre-flop, and then followed up with a 1/2 pot sized bet here then it may have won you the pot. If not, I would proceed with caution.

The turn.
When you made the decision to check you should have also made the decision to fold if he made a solid raise. At this point you have nothing and his bet is saying he does have something so you should have been out. If it was a soft bet and you had pot odds it would be worth seeing the next card to see if your flush hit, but that wasn't the case here (I think you can be fairly certain he didn't have an ace drawing to the nut flush since he didn't reraise the flop, but then again its hard to tell).
You could have barreled the turn... but I think the root of the problem here is your weak bet pre-flop. If you showed strength all the way down the board a bet on the turn would be more effective, although I think I personally would be letting it go at this point. given the situation I think a check was right here.

The river.
You shouldn't have even made it this far, but I think damage control with a check was your best move. You couldn't really go for a bluff here because he showed strength on the turn, and if he hit that nine it just turned into a set which he is never going to fold on this board. If he bet instead of checking you are def folding here.
Unless, you thought he didn't have the set then a huge bet might make him think YOU had the set. Since he also had nothing a huge bet probably would have won the pot but you had no way of knowing that so wouldn't be in a good spot to try it.

Well that's my 2 cents, like I said I'm fairly new at this myself so take my analysis with a grain of salt.

Good luck :)
 
M

MSINIWRAD

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I think firing again on the turn here would work...prolly gets rid of his Jx hands and he will likely shove all A big hands over you...and if he calls its almost always a float/draw so it leaves the option to river shove...but thats easy to say knowing what he had lol
 
V

Viver11

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You missed a bet on the turn. If not, I would have bet 3/4 of the pot when the 9 landed on the river. A big enough bet would have forced him to fold.
 
P

ph0n3_j4ck

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Hmm, it totally depends on how fast he called when you bet out the barrels. If he called super fast on that flop AND the turn, you should know what he was drawing for something and then should've fired a 3rd barrel. If he took a lot of time to decide, then that's when you made the correct play of checking the last one to not lose anymore chips.
 
R

rw11687

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Many people call c-bets with weak hands to see how you play the turn? Bottom line is it doesn't narrow his range any. I am of the mind to fire a second barrel on the turn without hesitation because you improved your hand. It gives you a chance to take the pot down right there, but if they call you have outs to what is most likely the best hand if you flush on the river.
 
R

rawone

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My (amateur) opinion:

You could have just called pre-flop and been in the same (maybe better) position. Less than 10k bet here is meaningless, it's an easy call for a player who has anything playable in a three player (already down to two player) situation when you toss out a small raise like you did. It's almost a "please call me" raise. Either call and limp, or bet a 3-4BB if you want to show some conviction. Q4s is a pretty low end hand, so I would be limping not pumping.

The post-flop betting pretty much has me scratching my head too. You hit nothing, only a single heart and nothing on the board that doesn't take runner runner to turn into anything useful. Your 9000 bet here is too little, too late - a check here would do you better, because when the other player raises (if he did) you could walk away and stop losing chips. if you are going to bet air, you need to be agro. 9k again ain't going to do it, that isn't barely a half pot sized bet, so he's getting excellent pot odds to call you. Again, your raise seems more like "call me please" than "I have a big hand!".

Okay, so let's say you make it to the turn. Here you make the right call (because you really have not much of anything, except a middling flush draw). Checking was right, and he obliged you with a nice big 75% pot sized bet right then and there. Again, a chance to swim away and lick your wounds, but on the basis of that flush draw, you just toss in the 24k, which from what I can tell is pot odds that are not in your favor at that point (3.4 of the pot, if you include your chips in the pot... even worse if you consider the position without your chips in the mix yet).

I think you didn't play this hand the best because you started with a weaker hand, bet sort of half way, and missed one or two good chances to quietly fold and keep your chips for a better time.

IMHO, of course!
 
Lucothefish

Lucothefish

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Pre and flop sizing are fine imo.

On the turn either bet/fold or check/fold, check/call is gross. River check is fine.
 
R

rw11687

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Pre and flop sizing are fine imo.

On the turn either bet/fold or check/fold, check/call is gross. River check is fine.

Agree with this, but a strong preference toward bet/fold. I don't like giving up control of the betting, especially in this scenario. PF raise, c-bet, check turn is basically saying "I give up, please bet so I can fold." Any decent player is going to take a stab whether or not they have a damn thing.
 
I

indahood193

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yeah i hated the way i played the turn. i thought pre it wasn't the worst raise, 3 handed i don't think you should be raising 3-4x pre every hand, as this is very spewy.
the only reason i checked the turn is because i thought he had an ace and if i bet then he would shove and i couldn't really call. but ofcourse it is much better to bet the turn as if he was slow playing his ace, or had any jack/ draw then it would be profitable.
i hated the call but thought if the heart came i could stack him off, but yeah i should deffoo have bet as has been said.
 
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