help with this hand k 10 / j 6

#1 29th July 2011, 6:26 AM

Live tourney
3 left
blinds 14400/7200
button moves all in with k 10 (31,000 in chips)
small blind raises all in with J 6 off ( 33,000 chips)
big blind folds
flop drops a six and small blind wins .....

would you reraise the buttons all in with J 6 off ?? there was controversy at the table .... i am curious
thanks in advance for all opinions

#2 29th July 2011, 5:26 PM

BTN shove is fine. Dont like the SB shove atall. No FE not beating his range no need to do anything stupid. Im stumped.

#3 29th July 2011, 6:00 PM

Nasty thing here is the blinds/stack sizes. Neither is well stacked, and perhaps a deal has already been worked out.

Reraise was not a great idea, but sb is bb in 2 more hands and if sb folds here, he is stuck. J may have been the best card he has seen in several orbits, and the orbits are killing him.

Not ideal at all, but that blinds to stack ratio is forcing things.......

Sb would have to shove next hand anyway if he wanted anything like any FE, which he won't have.

#4 29th July 2011, 6:10 PM

The SB play is just bad, J6 is behind his range even if he shoves 100% of hands, regardless of whether it's the best hand he has seen in ages. Much better to wait and shove any 2 so you have some fold equity than call an all in.

#5 29th July 2011, 6:12 PM

in my opinion the sb would have been better of folding. next hand he is on the button and then in the bb so has 2 chances of picking up something better . J6 is a terible hand especialy with a shove infront of him. by folding sb has a chance to get heads up if bb takes out btn. In sb situation Im thinking btn has me crushed .he would fold anything less than j6 so how can we asume we are infront here , and if we think were already behind why call.

#6 29th July 2011, 8:51 PM

thanks for the replies guys please keep them coming
im new here ... i appreciate it

jay

#7 29th July 2011, 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal LeFiscal

The SB play is just bad, J6 is behind his range even if he shoves 100% of hands, regardless of whether it's the best hand he has seen in ages. Much better to wait and shove any 2 so you have some fold equity than call an all in.

Sorry to disagree. Not a spot to be envious obviously, but sb has a stake in this pot already, and his M is less than 1.5. It is 3 handed!

Are we waiting for a pair? While not a great spot to be in, sb has only 4 hands left in his stack, and believe it or not, J6 is a slightly (very) better than average hand, (don't make me defend that...).

Buttons range is wide open so sb is not behind 100% of buttons hands.

And remember that Joe Hashem WON the ME in 2006 with 74 or 73 off, and he called.

#8 29th July 2011, 9:04 PM

If the button would have folded then I am okay with the shove from the sb, but after the button goes all in you have to fold J6, not matter what anybodys range is.

#9 29th July 2011, 9:08 PM

I don't want to defend the rr as some sort of brilliant play, it is obviously not. But given all the circumstances , mainly 3 handed and short stacked, along with the traditional role of the button here to shove anything, I can't fault the guy for the move. Would it make you happier if sb held 76 here? He still spikes the 6 and wins, but the 76 looks like a better hand to do this with.

#10 29th July 2011, 9:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj11

Sorry to disagree. Not a spot to be envious obviously, but sb has a stake in this pot already, and his M is less than 1.5. It is 3 handed!

Are we waiting for a pair? While not a great spot to be in, sb has only 4 hands left in his stack, and believe it or not, J6 is a slightly (very) better than average hand, (don't make me defend that...).

Buttons range is wide open so sb is not behind 100% of buttons hands.

And remember that Joe Hashem WON the ME in 2006 with 74 or 73 off, and he called.

Not atall. Firstly remember all stacks M are only ~1.5 - 2 so its not like we should be playing ATC because our M is so low.. so is everyone elses. If I was on BTN 3 handed with these stack sizes and blinds i'd be shoving any ace, king, suited queen, most SC's 56s+, suited gappers (8Ts,68s etc) broadways and probably a lot more. First in vigoure is key here and they need a much stronger hand to call than shove. If somehow it folded to me in SB im obv shoving 100%.

#11 30th July 2011, 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj11

Are we waiting for a pair? While not a great spot to be in, sb has only 4 hands left in his stack, and believe it or not, J6 is a slightly (very) better than average hand, (don't make me defend that...).

Buttons range is wide open so sb is not behind 100% of buttons hands.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.847% 45.72% 02.13% 25508192 1188692.00 { J6o }
Hand 1: 52.153% 50.02% 02.13% 27910223 1188692.00 { random }

SB is not behind 100% of buttons hands, but if the button pushes 100% of hands (shoves without even looking at his cards) then J6 is still behind this range. J6 is a bad hand

Quote:

And remember that Joe Hashem WON the ME in 2006 with 74 or 73 off, and he called.

Remember that why exactly? Kinda irrelevant for lots of reasons

#12 31st July 2011, 1:26 AM

i dont know .. this was my take on it ....

when the btn raised all in then sb(j6) has to move out of the way for the BB play .... what could he be thinking .. he was only 50% at best ... the best he could read for himself was an over card (not even 2) .... he had plenty of chips left to battle .. he had the button then the BB to move .... J 6 is horrible ....thats what I see ... after the all in .. he can not protect his hand ... and remember .. BB didnt even act yet ....
thnaks for all the replies .... please keepem coming . this is a league and your results will be posted
my .02

#13 31st July 2011, 4:54 AM

j6 no.....button shove is fine...if button had folded i with wouldve shoved with j6....less than 3 bb left and first in vigourish

#14 1st August 2011, 8:40 PM

agreed

#15 8th August 2011, 8:43 PM

i dunno how this can even be questioned. j6 is garbage and he had a equal stack to the buttons. I would only ever make such a call if i was getting paid 2-1 from a push.

#16 8th August 2011, 8:52 PM

sorry read it wrong they each had 2.5bbs left so maybe not the worst call in the world, at that point i dont mind the call be cause he actually is getting 2:1 on the call, although considering that it leaves the sb with 2k chips after he doesnt hit the board definately very risky. i think its pretty hard to judge a call with any face card when both players are that shortstacked. I mean the player in sb there is basically forced to push any 2 cards next hand and due to his stack hes probly going to be called by any 2. so really i cant blame the reshove, im about 50/50 on this one.

#17 8th August 2011, 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj11

Sorry to disagree. Not a spot to be envious obviously, but sb has a stake in this pot already, and his M is less than 1.5. It is 3 handed!

Are we waiting for a pair? While not a great spot to be in, sb has only 4 hands left in his stack, and believe it or not, J6 is a slightly (very) better than average hand, (don't make me defend that...).

Buttons range is wide open so sb is not behind 100% of buttons hands.

And remember that Joe Hashem WON the ME in 2006 with 74 or 73 off, and he called.

joe hachem wasnt allin until he was pushed allin postflop in which case he had flopped the straight.

#18 8th August 2011, 9:13 PM

i hear ya .. but still dont like it ...

#19 16th August 2011, 3:15 PM

SB should definitely fold imo. He doesn't beat a random hand & BB is likely to call if he folds, potentially moving him up the pay ladder.

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