hand against joeshowdown last week

just wanna see what everyone else thinks about this hand....joe posted that he raised 3 BB with pocket K's and i was in the BB with 6 8 Diamonds and called the 60....flop came 5 7 8 with the 5 and 7 being diamonds....i checked joe bet 300 and i decided to push after figuring out that 1)joe had a high pocket pair limiting his outs and 2)figuring out that i had 22 possible outs to win the hand....i feel i played it right at that point but let me hear some feedback from the rest of ya...and sorry joe....if i had not been in the BB i would never have called the raise..but already being in for 30 felt another 60 was worth while to see the flop

20 outs, 9 diamonds, 3 4's, 3,6's, 2 8's & 3 9's (remember not to count the 4d & 9d twice)
Board: 5d 7d 8h

Wins Ties Equity
37.17% 0.91% 38.08% ( KsKd )
61.01% 0.91% 61.92% ( 6d8d )

What were the stack sizes? W/O this info can't say whether the shove was 'a good play'.

Personally I'd rather call in position.... but many seem to love defending the blinds and playing out of position.

we were both at 1500, was only the second hand of the freeroll

OK if you had a read that Joe would call the over shove on a wet board then good play. This is where you get value from suited gappers, when you flop the nuts (or close to it) and get overpairs to commit themselves. But beware the overshove makes it very easy for the opponent to get away from the hand.

"But beware the overshove makes it very easy for the opponent to get away from the hand."

I think taking down a 500 chip (400 net) pot without showown is more desirable than getting into a 60/40 for all your chips early anyway.

Yes I would have seen the flop in the bb with your hand for that amount 2nd hand in the freeroll. People like to defend their blinds and this certainly was a cheap way of doing it. It also lets people in lp think twice before trying to steal your blinds.

As for the shove, I agree with Jilly. I also agree with D'Wilius. An over shove on a wet board is a good way to stack someone because chances are he's not calling a big bet once that 4th straight card hits the board or the flush card hits. On the other hand, taking down a 500 chip pot this early in play is very desirable as well.

*Just my opinion, I guess I would rather see you ask advice about the hand in question without mentioning who the CC player was unless that member said in advance he/she was okay with it.

Sometimes, knowing who the player was can and does make a difference, although I agree with asking them first since posting a name seems to make it more of a 'personal' issue.

Early in a game, especially a freeroll, defending the blinds is very common and done cheaply. Since you DID mention the player, I likely would have made the same play. Joe is not excluded from the list of players who will call almost any shove even with weak hands, and often makes reference to his 'Showdown Power' being of the highest caliber when he is on the winning end ... .

This is just one of the times HE had the big pair and lost the 'Showdown' ... ... Can't imagine how Joe could rag on someone about a loose play ...

86s OOP with only one player in a raised pot? Maybe he's on to something. Post flop you did fine. As most likely he put you on an over pair that was under his. As a rule I never flay call out of the blinds with out a PP. And only play hands like 86s from late postion in unraised pots with deeps stacks(or with deep enough stacks to call a raise). And preferably either against a nit or in a multiway pot. These hands need implied odds to show profit.

What's the problem here? You got your money in as a favorite, you correctly put your opponent on an overpair and got him to make a "bad" call (actually, given pot odds, the call is probably correct, but I'm too lazy to calculate it) Even if he's got just overcards and folds, nothing wrong with that result.

The hand doesn't play any differently if you only raise the pot or so on the flop, but there are some hands that might so the only question is whether you raised too much. I don't think there's much to discuss here... both your hands played themselves.

I might be a bit of a nit here,but im folding to the pre-flop raise.
I don't think I hit this flop often enough to be wasting chips this early.
I will usually pass on playing this out of position.


Snow

Awe.. .ok. This does make a difference.

I agree the call was iffy, but here's a case for making it: I also lost with overpair to gapper calling my UTG raise from BB, lost my big stack just pre-bubble that way (sniff), because I knew the player to be a real nit and couldn't see him calling my UTG raise with rags. He did. Flop was 3 lo cards unsuited, I pushed, he shoved me in with a flopped str8!!

Arrgghh the agony! Just before the bubble. Was my bad for getting pushed in, I admit, but I never expected what he had!

We always expect people to limp with those cards, not call raises OOP. Just a thought....

I love all the analysis of this hand. I can see points for both sides and valid ones at that. My favorite hand is 8 6 of spades so you can guess that I do and often will call a raise with hands such as this even OOP. Short stacked I probably wouldn't or some other situations BUT early in a tourney I'm not opposed to the idea because of what played out here. If you miss you still have 94% of your starting stack and 47bbs if you hit and hit hard then you can win alot of chips early which allows you to be patient and comfortable for a while. And as one last point for if you miss with this hand, chances are you will not give up any info about calling with a weaker hand cause you will fold to a c-bet anyway. GL on the felts guys.

I keep their names out of the HH, even editing the names out when i can't us a HH converter, on Ultimatebet.

Thought, the last 3 that called my raise, from High PP got lucky, but i got first place in the games.

wow, nice flop i have to say and nice positions...
Well i would have folded preflop for 3x raise, but i would have definitely called that post flop raise...
Even if assumed that he had pocket aces, i still would have not minded calling his raise...

I don't think it was a bad call early in the free roll, sometimes you have to play hands like that and take a shot. You have to wait for premium hands for to long so it wasn't to bad a call and you got lucky. GL

sorry all about not asking joe first or leaving his name out...was not my intent to make it personal and i did admit that in any other position i would have folded pre flop giving joe the respect he has earned

I never saw this thread before and vaguely remember this hand after you posted the details. I was reading the mtt strategies thread and saw "hand with joeshowdown" as the next thread and I was thinking what did I do now lol. My analysis of this hand:

If I raised from the smallblind to open the action then go ahead and call with 68suited because you got position and I could be raising with any 2 cards although on the 2nd hand of a freeroll I'll just give up my smallblind with crappy cards. If I raised from early position or even the button you should fold it. However, you said that "i checked, joe bet 300 and I decided to push..." so you called out of position. I can't imagine betting 300 into a 120ish pot. If you say so then I did. I probably was worried about the many draws, but I don't bet more than the pot unless I'm shoving allin. I hope I didn't say anything mean to you after the hand.

Listing my name in the topic of thread or in describing any hand with me is fine with me. I just wish I knew about this topic when you started it

I <3 suited gapers nuff said early in tournament we wanna play SC and PP you did, it payed off, nm who the villain was.