Folding AA pre-flop

I came across an interesting post on another site as follows:

Lets say there is a table of 8 in a 100 dollar buy in tourny with crazy reckless, loose players..

it is the first hand, ur BB and dealt AA...
1st one to act goes all in
2nd folds
3rd goes all in
4th folds
5th goes all in
dealer goes all in
SB FOLDS
Its your turn... would you call this and play ur AA agianst 4 poeple?...
i folded mine and a flush won the pot....

Now lets just say you knew what they had..
1st: KJclubs
3rd: QQ
5th: 99
dealer: 78 diamonds
and somehow u had magical powers and you knew that the other players that folded didnt have aces. so u knew ur 2 aces was still in the deck...
Would u still fold??
I would... even though i have the best hand.. dont i still have less then 50% chance of winning the pot.. and its risking all my chips

People get to excited withAA. It's very hard to be disiplined enough to put that hand down. 50% is not great odds

It depends on whether or not the buy-in and how you are doing economically...i mean in one point of view the object is to be safe and take only smart risks and give yourself the potential to do the most important thing in big tournaments, survive...on the other hand you know going in that you have the best possible starting hand! Yes, luck might screw you over here but if we win this all in, we are sitting very comfortably at or near the top in chips and you can be extremely selective in hands and protect that lead with little pressure of making anything else happen...hindsight this time you may have made the right decision but its really a matter of game-to-game tournament-to-tournament...no decision is right all the time which is why poker is so great...

happened to me

i was 9th spot, last to act on my AA and dealer called with 88 with the 2-7 spots folding and 8th spot called all in with KK lol.........i wouldn't have to throw all my chips in if 8th spot didn't call cuz dealer had half of what i had sigh...so me being me with pocket Ace figures i can beat this kids KA amd this other guys pocket pair....i was half right and screwed...i could feel it

8 came up on flop and that was it i was pissed.....and after reading bigfreelife's post...i think that will help me out in the end....thanks

i'm stupid for thiking i was invincible...and you've brought me down to the ground out of the clouds heh...i'll have to modify my risk takin situations now hehe...peace

Digi

i'd call in a second

1st of all, nobody has magical powers to guess what other people have
if 3 other people are in the hand with me, i'll take them on


only way i'll fold A-A is it 8 people go all-in before me

if i'm too afraid to play A-A, i'll end up being way too tight a player to do good in real life tournies.

9 ppl = 18 cards
3 burns = 3 cards
2 aces in your hand = 2 cards

52 - 23 = 29

so...

if your 2 cards are left to be delt and not burned or mucked already you have 5 cards coming out of 29 left = 10 percent chance of hitting your card

if 1 card remains in same situation = 5 percent chance

and 0 percent chance if burned, mucked, or doesn't get played/delt at all

not good odds....in my situation i should've folded but i lost it not thinking and going all in with the snap of a finger....hurts when you don't think of what could be going on....

that was to be taken in my type of situation...having high cards that ppl like to play without having a pocket pair to call with....A is some ppls magic card...pocket A's aren't always a good thing...gotta play em right...i got screwed into an all in situation i didn't want to be in and i was right....i should've folded....gut feelings make me sick when u don't act on em...blahhhhhhhh.

Digi

while i agree with the fold in your position i do not agree with the play overall...even with all of the people in my table going all in...you are GARUNTEED the best hand..and thats what oyu wanna push your chips in with..i understand you must have patted oyur back on the play but more then 90% of the time you will win that pot..
connors

i wouldn't pat my back for losing which i did....cuz i did call the 2 all ins...

my point to my situation....especially if a bunch of ppl go all in at a table...all 9 ppl!

you'd think one or 2 ppl are holding a k or a something to win the pot...no way everyone has pockets if i had aa....you get what i mean...scary situation...and i was last to bet so all of my chips are depending on me...i called and exactly what i thought was gonna happen ...happened! somone must've folded ace/rag...maybe even two ace might've been folded....but it's overwith...and that situation changed my mind about how i'll play it next time...hopefully not the same positions and situation lol...i'd be pissed if i lost the same damn way lol...oh well

anyone understand my big point?

Digi

2 ppl callin an AA all in.....

that would be the minimum where i'd have to think about it....3 i'd probably fold...1 i'd call in a milisec! i usually don't like all inning my AA's tho...gets into more trouble that way i think....check raise it hehe...

p'z

Digi

Depends on your situation. If its a low limit cash game I'm in. If its a tournament where the money is comingquickly and I want to make it, I fold out of common sense. You don't need AA to win $$$ although it helps.

Big pair power decreases with every all in caller. 3 players already all in first hand. Fold em. Just remember the more people you are up against the less strong those aces are.

Ouch...happens to me all the time. I don't think I have ever won an all-in verse all-in with pocket aces. This one time I had them and went all in preflop. Another kid was chip leader and was deciding weather to call or not with J10! I kind of wanted him to call, lol. Anyways he did and the flop came J, 10, 8. Fourth street 10, and river 2. I looked at the bottom of the deck and what do you know, my other 2 aces were the last two cards in the deck...Ouchhhhh

If nine other people are all in in front of you on the first hand, that's just crazy first of all, but what's crazier is that at best, you're only 20% or so to win the hand and take the prize money right there. If you're playing a ten player single table where 50% of the prize money is awarded to first place, you're getting an even money bet (you're 4 to 1 to win 4 to 1 money--actual winnings, not chips that is). But that's the best possible case. If one or both of your aces aren't live (which seems more likely since 9 people are already in) you could be getting worse than 9 to 1 odds to win 9 to 1 in chips, which is horrible. If you fold this first hand, you at least get second or third place (possible split pot) instead of getting your aces busted because you took bad odds.

The firstcomment was about 4 hands all-in before you, which is a tougher decision, because you're getting about 1.5 to 1 odds with that specific example (KJ, QQ, 99, 67) and a chance to take 1/2 the chips in play and probably 1st place if you win. But same thing here....If you don't like being 1.5 to 1 (or maybe even 2.5 to 1) for all your money on the first hand, just drop it and wait for a better spot. Personally, I would be likely to call here.

Does that make any sense?

Generally, no matter how great of a hand I have, AA, KK, I'll never call an all-in bet where there is more than two people already in, assuming you're in late position. If someone goes all in as the first to act after BB and I have AA, I'd fold because there's a whole table of people after you to call, decreasing your chances to win.

It's hard to fold AA, but you have to know when to in order to be successful.

Jon

i say you never lay down AA ... hoping that others wil have similar high cards to eahc other and merely worrining about the flush. rtememeber a flush is hard to get. so you are still the favorite most of the time.

I put the hands that you had into a poker calculator, and I got roughly 43%, give or take one for different suits on the nines and queens and aces, so I'd say that the right play is to lay the aces down.
That's pretty remarkable. I think you've stumbled on to one of the few situations where laying down aces is a great play.

OK here is my rational. I played a tournament where I was on the bubble with an average stack. I get AA in my BB and everyone folds to to the blinds. The SB had a big stack and goes all-in had more than double my stack so just risking 1/2 his stack and stealing. Either way I love the situation. Of course I call. He had J4 off suit. He flopped J44 I had 2 out which never came. I got put out by a lucky flop. I play all my tournaments the same no matter the buy in or I try to due to the players. I adjust for their bad play because in low buy ins there is a lot of bad play. I call on the first hand with AA. If I win I have a big stack. If I lose I saved the time it would take to get a bad beat by a lucky flop if I get to the bubble. I would have no regrets if I lost AA vs 4 people on the first hand. Even if I magically knew 1 person already mucked an A I still call you have to play your hands when you get them. Too many tourneys you don't get cards and say only if I got some cards!!


My final thought would be if you can't make that call then the buy in was too high if you really needed the money. If you won the entry through a satellite you really have to play it even more. I just can't see folding it sorry. I just can't see you have the best hand and sometimes they hold up vs. 4 players.

just cause u got Pocket rockets doesnt mean u got the pot anything could happen i wouldnt risk the all in

A MUCH better player than ANY (Johnny Moss) of us once said-"All you can hope to do is get your money in with the best hand." If a player can't muster the fortitude to take some calculated risks when they have the edge, well, I don't much think poker is their game.

Well if your rich u call and if your poor you fold.
If I needed some money then I would of folded but if my bankroll was pretty good then I would call.

The way I see this, you have a chance to get 5x the chips of everyone else, holding the best hand. If you win 1 out of 5 chances, which is very easy to see happen, you have a huge advantage over the rest of the table, and can bully without too much worries, and have position for a while, probably going on to a final table. Not too often does a situation like that come up, but if it ever did for me, I'd gamble that I'd come out ahead often enough to make it profitable.

seems as if a lot of ppl have different ideas on it...for me i'd hope to be in BB spot next time or right after blinds holding AA...then i can raise ppl out hopefully....i've noticed you have to play a lot of hands to win in tournaments...you can't just fold every crap hand...you have to play the positions and low raises and go for it...high cards before the flop are only for buying blinds and low bets in my experience...or try to see flop....either you have it or you don't....i'm not really one for the luck part of this game....i hate risking all of my chips on a pocket pair or some AK hand n such. no cards are invinsible ya know?

gotta play safe but aggressive....i'll leave it at that for me....beat AA w/ my KK for the thousandth time in a tourn yesterday heh....hate pocket A's..........

peace
Digi

AA at the casino is a horrible hand to have if your playing low limits...first of all you cant bet anyone out so theres 4 or 5 players seeing the river, giving you horrible odds of winning...second of all, when you lose with rockets, it sucks and puts you on tilt which in the long run will just lose you more money

yeah i agree even a person with pocket 2s can beat u. thats why i never go all in.

i could never fold AA before the flop... say 3 people other than me go all in right...

bet ya at least one of them have an Ace and maybe a high kicker like a Queen... he would have to get 2 queens to beat me... one other might have a pocket pair but against AA ...
last man can have KQ, KK, JJ, KJ or something but im still the fav to win

I belive you have to call just because of the odds your getting for your money in this situation.

Truely one of the times to fold AA is when you're not in the blinds and their are 15 people left with only the top 9 getting paid. It is a good fold if it's been raised, but don't go out of your way to put people out. Do not risk your chip stack for that mess, it isn't worth it.

I dissagree xreedIf your in turnament and lets say tour in the middle with tour chip stack.. Pocket AA gives you a big chance to double up... So instead of getting 9th place and winning 10-12 $, maybe you can get a 4-5 place and win 30 - 40 $

Takes alot of disceplen to fold it but i wouldent even tho theres so many people in.

i always play AA its the best starting hand in poker so you have the better odds against everyone preflop i would never even think of folding AA

this is an ingenius idea u have come across, no hand i dont care how strong is good against so many ppl

I totally don't like to go all in with AA..

A bigger bet ok, but i folded some AA when in a beginning hand.

My first AA in a tourney starting hand and some guy called all in.

I go all in ... AA against 46.... Rest of the Story ...

I AM OUT !!!!!!

Since this day i never call a all in with AA

I find it kinda stupid to drop AA with 4 people.. you know you got your money in with the best hand like Matro said, it seems kinda goofy to me.

id call. depending how the people who called already play, calling with AA should be fairly easy. if they're loose players, you know you most likely have the beat already (in fact you should be 100% sure). if they play tight, then you know they must have KK, AK, QQ, maybe even the other AK. this should be an easy call as well even if you know the rest of your Aces may be dead, you're still a huge favorite over KK, QQ, AK, and AQ. so, in this situation i would call...in fact, i would have my chips before the guy before finished putting his chips in...just to show the strength of my hand.

ive lost with AA when someone ran a flush on me. same thing when someone hit 2 pair..but what am i going to do about it? this is poker and im gambling with strongest starting hand possible. dont be scared to call with a very strong hand because its lost before. sometimes players get lucky, but luck doesnt win all the time.