Flush Draw - Good or Bad Call

#1 26th November 2011, 1:24 AM

I was in a tournament tonight in my town, 750 guaranteed, was sitting over average when I picked up AK. There were 11 players left at the time, I think top 7/8 got paid. Blinds were 1.5k/3k. Had over 40k before the hand.
Everyone folded around to me in the dealer position. I raised to 10.5k, the guy in the small blind called ( had maybe 10k chips more than me) and everyone folded.

Flop came out Ace of hearts, 10 of hearts 3 of clubs. I pushed all in and the other guy called with a 6 of hearts, 8 of hearts, flush draw, while I had a pair of Aces with a King kicker. Just wondering whether people thought I played it right and if the other guy was right to call.

#2 26th November 2011, 4:03 AM

he had a 35% odd chance of hitting his flush and otherwise u were favourite to win the hand, 1 in 3 times they will hit their flush more or less... whatever people say there is always an element of chance in poker.

#3 26th November 2011, 4:40 AM

I don't feel like your play was wrong by any means. Honestly, if I was in the other guys shoes I wouldn't make that call unless I hit more then just a flush draw on the flop. I would probably make a call to a smaller bet or if I was to act first, I would shove in that situation and make you make the call for the rest of your chips. Like nitulbhatia said, there's always an element of chance involved

#4 26th November 2011, 8:17 PM

You have 13bb's... really you should just be shoving pre.
Only time I'm considering not shoving preflop here is > if there's tons of SS's & if players to my left are too dumb to realize that anything less than a shove is obviously gonna be a monster (hoping they are stupid & are assuming a raise of say 2.2-2.5x is a steal... because really we should just be shoving in this spot (13bb otb)). If I were in SB I'd be thinking you were only holding something like AA,KK, maybe QQ?... because (as mentioned) you should just be shoving here. 'BUT' obviously the player in SB is a fish if he's calling here OOP w/o implied odds with a hand like 86s.

Question for ya: You raise AK 3.5bb's otb... SB calls... now what are you doing if you wiff the flop? (2/3 of the time).

note: Alot of fish seem to think they're 50/50 with a flush draw on the flop... this is only the case if they've got a FD & 2 overs (& aren't up against an overpr)

#5 26th November 2011, 8:26 PM

Villain was first to act post flop. What did he do?

#6 26th November 2011, 8:29 PM

hi, olliejjc16, dot get dissapointed. you did the right move you get you chips in the middle when you were ahead from your opponent. Don't think that were only 2-3 remaing players until you get to the money, you play for the 1st place not only to get ITM! so move on and keep playing your A game and the results will come...

#7 27th November 2011, 7:51 PM

Agree this is a preflop shove with only 13BB. You post flop shove the only play to try to protect your hand . I question the 8/7 call, he probably saw something like it on TV. Calling on a mid range flush draw is a negative EV play -note his name and play against him whenever you can - you are going to end up with his chips.

#8 28th November 2011, 6:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

You have 13bb's... really you should just be shoving pre.
Only time I'm considering not shoving preflop here is > if there's tons of SS's & if players to my left are too dumb to realize that anything less than a shove is obviously gonna be a monster (hoping they are stupid & are assuming a raise of say 2.2-2.5x is a steal... because really we should just be shoving in this spot (13bb otb)). If I were in SB I'd be thinking you were only holding something like AA,KK, maybe QQ?... because (as mentioned) you should just be shoving here. 'BUT' obviously the player in SB is a fish if he's calling here OOP w/o implied odds with a hand like 86s.

Question for ya: You raise AK 3.5bb's otb... SB calls... now what are you doing if you wiff the flop? (2/3 of the time).

note: Alot of fish seem to think they're 50/50 with a flush draw on the flop... this is only the case if they've got a FD & 2 overs (& aren't up against an overpr)

^^^ This. With AK it's an easy shove.

#9 28th November 2011, 6:49 AM

Should have been a shove, he DEF fold pre, but he sees 2 hearts on the flop, he now has incentive to " get lucky " and i bet he got a great rush from it too. I have a feeling he got there? ( did not read that he made the flush on the OP )

#10 28th November 2011, 8:37 AM

Your opponent may have figured he had more outs than the hearts when he called, ie a 2 card draw to the back draw straight, some guys go for the win regardless and if his flush hits he is right at the top on the final table.

I agree AK is a shove, on the bubble, preflop.

#11 28th November 2011, 2:33 PM

sorry guys i made a mistake about the positions, i was in small blind and he was in the big blind, i see what you mean about the shoving and i was contemplating it at the time, but I was too afraid of losing my chips on the bubble, after working so hard to get that far I suppose and I was sitting in the top half of players of the people who were left at the time, ah well live and learn i guess!

#12 28th November 2011, 7:22 PM

i think you played it right, but only b/c you were very close to the money (i agree with others that AK w/13BBs, non-bubble is a no brainer shove) ... if you shove AK and run into a bigger stack with a pair that wants to race ... you are behind even if slightly and can go from 6th in money to felt in a blink

unfortunately, you ran into a player that wanted to chase at 35%-40% and you basically told him you had it and he didnt care

#13 3rd December 2011, 9:08 AM

The only possible mistake I see is that he only needed 2.5X BB to call. Still, I don't see why he called that with just 6-8 suited. But at the point you shoved, it was the right move.

In hindsight, with just 13BB left, maybe just shove preflop. I think I would have done that. But maybe that's just me. I get fairly aggressive when short stacked.

#14 4th December 2011, 6:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkassassin89

Should have been a shove, he DEF fold pre,

Why do you want him to fold pre?

#15 4th December 2011, 6:46 AM

Dang, that sucks bad; doing the right move and getting beat. It happens in poker.
I recently read an article on CC that explained quite a lot about your situation and sure it may be he just got "lucky". Check it out, maybe it'll help you out.
A Few Pitfalls in Thought

#16 4th December 2011, 7:09 PM

Good call from you but I was on Allin preflop here, thats bubble phase and you are lucku to hit A on flop

#17 18th February 2012, 6:46 PM

You have to think about it from his perspective. If you had 6, 8 of heart and you called 1/5 of your stack pre flop, what are you possibly looking for? If two hearts came, he probably thought of that as good news and just called without thinking about what you could have had.

Some players like this call especially if its possible their opponent could be bluffing, and they have more outs to pair their hole cards. I like semi-bluffing with this kind of hand personally. All together, it sounds like he was gambling because he already invested 10k and had 30k more to call.

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