Fifty50 and Double or Nothing Variance Simulator

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facetusmalum

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Hi,

I've put together variance simulators for[dead link~tb] and [dead link~tb] SNGs.

Fifty50 SNGs are a derivative form of the Double or Nothing format, but instead of winning "double" the buy-in (minus rake), the remaining 5 players receive a share of the buy-in, plus a certain amount per 100 chips they have left.

[dead link~tb] takes into account the exact values of rake and winnings per 100 chips for every buy-in, and uses statistical data to assign the finishing chip stack. Because it doesn't take into account tilt and other human factors, on non-marginal ITM values there is very little variance and the chart is simply projected income.

Because, for some reason, ratios of rake to buy-in are different from level to level for Fifty50s, this plays a significant role. The same ITM rate can be losing at one level, and winning at another.

The following is a list of all Fifty50 buy-ins with their respective rake percentages and winnings per 100 chips (in % per buy-in), also represented as a chart here:

Code:
Buy-in / Rake   / Win per 100 chips
$1.50  / 11.11% / 2.96%
$3.50  / 6.85%  / 2.85%
$7     / 5.71%  / 3.14%
$15    / 5.67%  / 3.13%
$30    / 5.67%  / 3.13%
$60    / 5.67%  / 3.13%
$100   / 5.1%   / 3.16%
$200   / 4.32%  / 3.18%
As you can see, $1.50 and $3.50 games are extremely unprofitable, as you are being charged the most rake per buy-in. It settles at the same rate for $15-$60 games and then drops even further for high stakes. But this is just a side note, something to take into account.

[dead link~tb]is a bit simpler as it only needs to know how often on average does the player finish in the money, and it gives an idea of what variance and ROI might look like on the long run.


The result is a chart of up to 50000 simulated games, with the entered percentage of games won, with the profit/loss displayed in dollars. The results are generated randomly each time, so they would vary slightly between requests.

Feel free to discuss the simulators, and if anything needs to be corrected, I'll gladly do it. Feel free to share it if you find it useful.
Cheers!
 
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bullishwwd

bullishwwd

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I play the DoN and Triple ups. I could not get the stats on your DoN simulator to work?

Have you developed anything for Triple ups?

Variance is greater on Triple Ups, right?

Thanks, Wally
 
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facetusmalum

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I could not get the stats on your DoN simulator to work?
I don't think I understand what do you mean by that.

Have you developed anything for Triple ups?

Variance is greater on Triple Ups, right?
I'm definitely thinking about expanding to Triple-Ups as well, probably tomorrow (shouldn't take long to do it, all it takes is changing up the DoN simulator a bit). It's just that I only heard that they exist about 20 minutes ago.

What rooms have triple-ups these days? I've looked on 888 and a couple others just now and couldn't find them.
 
bullishwwd

bullishwwd

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DON Simulation & Chart

So, am I interpreting this chart & info correctly?

At a $3.30 buy-in with a 70% win rate after 50 DON SnGs, one would expect to be at about $75.00 ?


:confused:
 

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bullishwwd

bullishwwd

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I don't think I understand what do you mean by that.


I'm definitely thinking about expanding to Triple-Ups as well, probably tomorrow (shouldn't take long to do it, all it takes is changing up the DoN simulator a bit). It's just that I only heard that they exist about 20 minutes ago.

What rooms have triple-ups these days? I've looked on 888 and a couple others just now and couldn't find them.
Below was stats for Fifty50...do you have same for DoN?

The following is a list of all Fifty50 buy-ins with their respective rake percentages and winnings per 100 chips (in % per buy-in), also represented as a chart here:

Code:
Buy-in / Rake / Win per 100 chips $1.50 / 11.11% / 2.96% $3.50 / 6.85% / 2.85% $7 / 5.71% / 3.14% $15 / 5.67% / 3.13% $30 / 5.67% / 3.13% $60 / 5.67% / 3.13% $100 / 5.1% / 3.16% $200 / 4.32% / 3.18%
 
bullishwwd

bullishwwd

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What rooms have triple-ups these days? Bovada
 
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facetusmalum

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So, am I interpreting this chart & info correctly?

At a $3.30 buy-in with a 70% win rate after 50 DON SnGs, one would expect to be at about $75.00 ?


:confused:

50 games isn't enough of a sample size as it is highly dependant on various factors. If you run the same simulation several times, you will find that on some occasions you might be $75 down, or barely break even. On larger sample sizes it gives an idea of what variance might look like, and on even larger - estimate your ROI.
 
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facetusmalum

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Below was stats for Fifty50...do you have same for DoN?

The following is a list of all Fifty50 buy-ins with their respective rake percentages and winnings per 100 chips (in % per buy-in), also represented as a chart here:

Code:
Buy-in / Rake / Win per 100 chips $1.50 / 11.11% / 2.96% $3.50 / 6.85% / 2.85% $7 / 5.71% / 3.14% $15 / 5.67% / 3.13% $30 / 5.67% / 3.13% $60 / 5.67% / 3.13% $100 / 5.1% / 3.16% $200 / 4.32% / 3.18%

Nope, I haven't compiled that yet. It will take a bit of time as different rooms have different buy-ins for the same pay-out DoNs. But I will get to it eventually.
 
WVHillbilly

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You should have the software run 1000 samples or so for each data set entered to show the variance possible. Showing one line does not convey this.
 
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facetusmalum

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You should have the software run 1000 samples or so for each data set entered to show the variance possible. Showing one line does not convey this.

Yep, something like this is definitely coming in the future. I've only came up with the idea to make this thing a few hours ago and here we are looking at pretty graphs already. :)
 
bullishwwd

bullishwwd

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You should have the software run 1000 samples or so for each data set entered to show the variance possible. Showing one line does not convey this.
Yea, I knew the 50 sample population size was not enough, but I was just validating my interpretation of simulator. Even 1,000 population still is not enough, but leads to a better analysis.

It was interesting that when running a comparison of Triple up vs DoN SnGs at the same buy-in of $3.30 with a 70% success rate, for 1,000 games population, the results were around $3,000 vs $800. I also 'know' that 70% may be a little optimistic as well, but hey, I am an optimist. :)

Does calculating, 'over and over again' using the same data in simulator equate to the representative 'variance' ? It seems obvious that there is much greater variance playing Triple Up vs playing DoN AND much great potential 'reward' in the long run.

Even though I knew that with greater 'risk' and variance, the long term results would be greater ... that is significant .... much more than I had imagined.

Am I interpreting the comparison correctly between Triple Up and DoN?

What buy-in, population size, and win rate do you consider more valid?

Wally
 
bullishwwd

bullishwwd

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Btw, thanks for producing these simulators ... very insightful 'food for thought'.

After seeing this last night I went and played 3 DoNs and won all 3. Then, I played 1 Triple Up and lost. LOL Then, I went to bed!

Thanks again,

Wally
:) (y)
 
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