Do I Need to Get Away From This?

It’s pretty early in a donk game at my local casino. This is the 7PM Saturday night $130 buy-in live Hold ‘em tourney with 20 minute levels and $15K to start with blinds beginning at $25/$50.

With the blinds at $150/$300 the following hand takes place, my stack was about $19K at that point.

UTG +2 open limps for $300 and this causes several additional limps up to and including the button. I’m in the SB with and elect to complete the blind to $300 with over 10:1 pot odds; the BB checks his option thereby allowing 7 players to see the flop.

Pot- $2100

Flop-

Yahtzee!

I led out and bet $1100 hoping to just end it right there. Then UTG +2 moves all in for ~$12K and then one of the limpers from late position moves all-in as well for more than I had; about $22K.

Now I know I shouldn’t lose all my chips in an un-raised pot, but if there is an exception to that rule this is it! I call all-in knowing I’m ahead.

UTG +2 shows-

Late position shows-

Turn-

River-

So I lose to jacktard with the higher straight but beat the AJ and ended up with about $12K after it was all counted out. Really, it could have been far worse; plus I know the money went it with my hand a favorite to triple up.

Then of course I had to listen to the late position players’ husband (who was sitting to my immediate right) tell me what a jackass I am and yell “YOU WERE BEHIND SIR!” He followed that up with “Yep that sucks honey, they both sucked out on you!” I didn’t even bother responding, but no, I was not behind and don’t consider my hand to have sucked out. Nonetheless, do I need to get away from this? Maybe a pre-flop fold. Is this another example of how my poor decision pre-flop to play a poor hand OOP cost me?

I am personally going for a check raise here... As you said one person open limped than multiple others followed suit...

I think its unlikely in a multi way pot (4-6 players?) you are going to get all folds here, and out of the small blind you can more credibally rep a big hand here going for a check raise and barrelling off on future streets..

This allows you to use your fold equity with 5 high instead of just calling off.. and you will more effectively be able to win this hand this way without possibly having to win a showdown..

hope this helps

fine with the line, sometimes your diamond outs are dirty and you are pretty far behind 3way tho.

1ofTheFellas said:

I am personally going for a check raise here... As you said one person open limped than multiple others followed suit...

I think its unlikely in a multi way pot (4-6 players?) you are going to get all folds here, and out of the small blind you can more credibally rep a big hand here going for a check raise and barrelling off on future streets..

This allows you to use your fold equity with 5 high instead of just calling off.. and you will more effectively be able to win this hand this way without possibly having to win a showdown..

hope this helps

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There is definitely some merit to a C/R here and maybe I should have gone down that road. However, these donkaments are filled with weak players that love to check top pair. In this case, it is likely that the top/top hand would have bet the flop; allowing me to C/R, but there is also a decent chance that it checks around – which is disaster for my hand if I don’t hit the turn.

Plus, as you said, the whole point to a C/R is to take advantage of fold equity; but in these tournaments I don’t have any F/E anyway. Consider, that the top/top hand bets the flop and I check raise; say 3X and about 25% of my stack. The UTG +2 player almost certainly shoves as does the AJ putting us in exactly the same spot.

It’s for these reasons that my typical default is to just open bet. A C/R in these tournaments is kind of along the lines of a fancy play (I want to emphasize kind of) – no one is going to fold anyway.

I probably should have just shoved the flop; that’s the only way I get any F/E, and I likely would have only got action from the top/top hand putting me in a great place to double. But, as played I was in a good spot to triple, so it could go either way I guess. Once I see this flop I don’t think it really matters a great deal whether I open bet or C/R; all the money is going in one way or another.

Even though I’m getting the right price pre-flop we all know that’s not always good enough in tournament poker. So that leads me to wonder if I should just try to avoid this spot entirely and fold pre, 13:1 be damned.

duggs said:

fine with the line, sometimes your diamond outs are dirty and you are pretty far behind 3way tho.

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I’m just curious Duggs; how to you figure that I’m behind?

Really, because while I was sitting there considering call/fold, I was thinking that I know I’m ahead of one hand – but I’m not sure about two hands. Now in the time since I have run the numbers and still figure I’m ahead of both hands; of course that’s also now knowing what those hands were.

If one, or both, of my opponents has a set (which was certainly a possibility) than I am behind, but I think I’m ahead of anything else. And even behind, I’m still 40/60 and getting a little better than 2:1 on my money; it’s close but I still don’t see how I’m pretty far behind here.

not suggesting folding, but v Axdd and JJ(or any set/2pair/TP) you are drawing to 6 clean outs.

it might not of been clear but i meant, sometimes you are behind but thats fine

Even though you were ahead but you are still only 50% to win the hand. If one person folds then it becomes 50/50 so in any case you are only going to be 50% and surely you dont wanna be risking it all on 50/50 when you are in a comfortable position in a tournament. Top pair with backdoor nut flush draw is not a terrible hand by any means.

Secondly with so many limpers it is entirely possible that someone has flopped a 2 pair and then you are NOT the favourite. Thirdly you dont actually have a hand and are just drawing so there is no reason to get so trigger happy like how you did.

I have been in these situations many times and I only min call until I make something.

Your not really ahead..the str8 draw has better outs than just diamonds for you, so you were at best in 2nd after the flop, don't know if I would've called the allin with a low draw, especially with 7 players in the pot. Odds are there for a much better flush draw (which luckily there wasn't). Just an opinion though.

DragonReborn said:

Your not really ahead..the str8 draw has better outs than just diamonds for you, so you were at best in 2nd after the flop, don't know if I would've called the allin with a low draw, especially with 7 players in the pot. Odds are there for a much better flush draw (which luckily there wasn't). Just an opinion though.

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Noe he is favorite out of the 3 after the flop, the AJ is second and 56 is third.