Chip dumping or selective stupidity? Should I report this to the site?

Alright, I want to get some input before I accuse this person wrongly, and make a fool out of myself.

I am in the early stages of a MTT satellite game (site name withheld for now). The player (Villain) in question is doing well, seems to know what he is doing so far and from playing him before (At least I am pretty sure I have, his name was kind of familiar). After playing him some more, well, I will get to that.

Suddenly he does this:

Limps in with two other players.
Flop comes, UTG min bets on K high ragged flop.
UTG 3 calls
Villain puts out large 3-bet on button
UTG folds
UTG 3 calls

Turn comes. Another rag.
UTG 3 checks
Villain bets out smaller than did on flop, less than 1/2 pot.
UTG 3 shoves all in
Villain, looking at his turn bet now doubled, this guy is all in now, CALLS this large overbet.

UTG 3 shows top pair (K)
Villain shows Ace high; No pair, no draw, unless you count chasing a 3 outer with one card to come. He calls this with no hand whatsoever, in a pot with someone highly unlikely to be bluffing from their actions. He had to know the guy had something!

Immediately I ask WTF? UTG 3 does not deny it, instead he first tries to make me sound stupid by pointing out a spelling error in my chat (after misspelling several words also, lmao) then, when that does not work, he actually tries to convince me the guy was bluffing (by calling? How do you bluff by calling?)
When I clearly do not buy it, he then tries to say it was just "a bully" (calling, with no hand and no draw except to a 3 outer is a bully?)

After another player chats in agreement "chip dumper", then he decides to say he does not know the guy.

And all of this time, Villian does not say one word in his own defense. Not one peep. Now he is oddly speechless.

Now, here is the thing; after this I watch the Villains play, he seems to know about/how to;
1. Bluff and give up when caught by another player who also shoves (same thing happens, only this time he does not call)
2. Clearly shows he knows what pot odds are by chasing 12 outs or more, nothing else (no gut shot only st8 chases) when he should
3. Knows how to trap by checking/calling with best hand
4. Knows how to value bet river.

But gets "selective amnesia" with certain players. So, at one point he does not realize the guy is calling his bets with something when he himself is on a bluff, so he calls the over bet with no hand. The same exact thing happens later, only now he folds?

That is not all!!
Much later in the game, same exact thing happens and once again he calls someones all in (for game life) with no hand, no draw, right into a clear board pair or larger pocket pair (that is what guy had) after earlier being in same spot and showing the guy at that time with an overpair he could fold top pair to a shove!! Only, I do not think he was chip dumping that time; No, I think maybe he was saying to me "see? I am an idiot! I do have selective amnesia!" Or, he was chip dumping again. Plays great until late, then goes out with a stupid call, two overcards to the board in his hand.

Hmmm......

So, am I crazy? The obvious question is, why? Well, they run these satellite games all day, so if your friend has not made it to win one yet...you chip dump to him to help? And if this Villain is found to have already won one of these satellites, the question becomes "why would you play in a sat to a game you already won entry into, when winning again does no good?

I am putting a 2 question poll at the top here, or just post and please tell me..am I crazy, or does this look like chip dumping to you?

Well, it certainly looks strange.

A few things that come to mind are

1. STT sat to an MTT or MTT sat. (You said MTT sat, but IDK if you mean STT sat to an MTT or if the sat was MTT) That is obv. a big factor. And if MTT, how many runners?

2. Stakes and maybe site. I see play like this at 888 for example, stupid plays that reek of ulterior motive and are just idiots abound..lol. And, a 1$ sat will have different players than a 45$ sat. maybe...

Was villain chatting any other time?

Could you post the HH with stack sizes etc? Did you have any stats on players?

You can always just note the hands #s and email support with your thoughts. They can have a look and will be able to see stuff like if he already has entry, as well as his entire DB.

Sounds like me when I play drunk to....lol

fletchdad said:

Well, it certainly looks strange.

A few things that come to mind are

1. STT sat to an MTT or MTT sat. (You said MTT sat, but IDK if you mean STT sat to an MTT or if the sat was MTT) That is obv. a big factor. And if MTT, how many runners?

2. Stakes and maybe site. I see play like this at 888 for example, stupid plays that reek of ulterior motive and are just idiots abound..lol. And, a 1$ sat will have different players than a 45$ sat. maybe...

Was villain chatting any other time? (yep)

Could you post the HH with stack sizes etc? Did you have any stats on players?

You can always just note the hands #s and email support with your thoughts. They can have a look and will be able to see stuff like if he already has entry, as well as his entire DB.

Sounds like me when I play drunk to....lol

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It would not have struck me odd if I had not seen his play before and after. That was suspicious. The HH is not in a format I can post, but I double checked the layout I gave, I did it right. He was a big stack before that hand, he lost over half in that hand. Held top 10 spot after for whole game.

The game was a qualifier sat into the main sat game, winner of that one goes on. So having 2 wins does you no good. That main game is done and gone now.

One of my friends on this site was not so "wishy-washy" as I am about complaining, he already sent a complaint, so I think I should back him up and do same. Cannot take notes on players (not bovada like, just cheesy site, lol), so no stats, just memory. I sure would not play him like I would a donkey or weak player.

I would definatley report this person to the site in question, you have an obligation to yourself and the other players of the site to report any and all collusion. If nothing is done about it i would seriously consider playing on a different site.

I take this topic incredibly serious...that said unfortunately IMO only you are in a position to "make the call" because the fell of it is what I think tips the scale...it sounds very fishy and from what you said I agree...go with your gut...dumping and cheating can not be tolerated because without the integrity of the game we are all lost...good luck

My sentiments exactly

cashwig said:

I would definatley report this person to the site in question, you have an obligation to yourself and the other players of the site to report any and all collusion. If nothing is done about it i would seriously consider playing on a different site.

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snklzona said:

I take this topic incredibly serious...that said unfortunately IMO only you are in a position to "make the call" because the fell of it is what I think tips the scale...it sounds very fishy and from what you said I agree...go with your gut...dumping and cheating can not be tolerated because without the integrity of the game we are all lost...good luck

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Suspicious activities complaint sent. Thanks guys.

Too late now if you sent the comnplaint, but,
Just sounds like a regular freeroll to a sat to a sat not caring mindless player.

He perhaps thought already put a fair amount in the pot and an Ace could hit and be good.

I have seen much worse and not just in such meaningless tournaments.
With equal big stacks 52off calling all in on a flop of AK7.
My AK was amazed and delighted until the RIGGED poker site turned and rivered 34.
The stupidity of some people is unbelievable,
(the way some sites reward that stupidity also leans on the bounds of credibility), but that's a topic where all roads lead to another thread.

{perhaps the clever software detected this stupidity as clearly only chip dumping and so let him win} ???

Back on track though lots of people play freeroll satellites they already have tickets for, just to reduce the final field, just because they enjoy playing, and some times just because they like to be able to annoy other players.

Lots of strange stuff happens at the felts. No matter what actually was happening I doubt you will get the answer you want from support.

Live... I watched a couple try this. She would bet big, her mark would call and dudeman would call. Turn, she would bet bigger, mark calls, hubby calls,. On the river she would bet even bigger... but never pushed, mark would fold. Hubby puts out a min raise and she insta folds.

Watched them hammer more than a few suckers. Went to the floor. Told him what they were doing. He leaves to look at the camera for about twenty minutes and comes back out with three huge security guys and literally threw them out of the casino. Banned them for life, and put their names and pics in the cheaters database.

About a half hour later the floor guy comes by and slips three white chips ($100.00 chips) in my hand and says. This is between you and us. We don't need a humbug cheaters tag around here.

No prob, says I.

-

you hope the security dept would catch this sort of activity - especially if its ongoing

Chemist said:

Too late now if you sent the comnplaint, but,
Just sounds like a regular freeroll to a sat to a sat not caring mindless player.

He perhaps thought already put a fair amount in the pot and an Ace could hit and be good.

I have seen much worse and not just in such meaningless tournaments.
With equal big stacks 52off calling all in on a flop of AK7.
My AK was amazed and delighted until the RIGGED POKER SITE turned and rivered 34.
The stupidity of some people is unbelievable,
(the way some sites reward that stupidity also leans on the bounds of credibility), but that's a topic where all roads lead to another thread.

{perhaps the clever software detected this stupidity as clearly only chip dumping and so let him win} ???

Back on track though lots of people play freeroll satellites they already have tickets for, just to reduce the final field, just because they enjoy playing, and some times just because they like to be able to annoy other players.

Lots of strange stuff happens at the felts. No matter what actually was happening I doubt you will get the answer you want from support.

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It was not a meaningless event. It was a pre-qual sat where the winner of the event you then get into gets a 10k seat package in a live event.

JusSumguy said:

Live... I watched a couple try this. She would bet big, her mark would call and dudeman would call. Turn, she would bet bigger, mark calls, hubby calls,. On the river she would bet even bigger... but never pushed, mark would fold. Hubby puts out a min raise and she insta folds.

Watched them hammer more than a few suckers. Went to the floor. Told him what they were doing. He leaves to look at the camera for about twenty minutes and comes back out with three huge security guys and literally threw them out of the casino. Banned them for life, and put their names and pics in the cheaters database.

About a half hour later the floor guy comes by and slips three white chips ($100.00 chips) in my hand and says. This is between you and us. We don't need a humbug cheaters tag around here.

No prob, says I.

-

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I have heard of this happening in the cash games, but less than that being done in tournies, as that does not cost the casino anything. When playing those, I try to watch out for the small buy in MTT "easy" cheats; pocketing chips from previous MTT and bringing them back in another tourney, card switches, obvious collusion. A lot of it is hard to catch, and you never feel quite sure.

Michael Paler said:

It was not a meaningless event. It was a pre-qual sat where the winner of the event you then get into gets a 10k seat package in a live event.

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Pre-Qualifier ?? A freeroll??? A lows stackes tournament ??
I know a lot of people who play like this in such a donkament. U either win ur Ticket or go home. He committed himself by trying a bluff , that not worked and so he was in the hand till the very end. Such a Tournament is not the place to do chip dumpig imo.

psychotie said:

Pre-Qualifier ?? A freeroll??? A lows stackes tournament ??
I know a lot of people who play like this in such a donkament. U either win ur Ticket or go home. He committed himself by trying a bluff , that not worked and so he was in the hand till the very end. Such a Tournament is not the place to do chip dumpig imo.

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I think I covered this, but let me try again.

1.) Winner of this game goes to final game, where main prize is a shot at a 10k seat package.
2.) If you do not place in the top 10 of this game where this occurred, you cannot get to that game.
3.) IF you are already in that game, then there is no point to play this qual game. A second victory does no good.
4.) So, if you do play in it despite this and call your friends all in with no hand, you are clearly trying to help him make the top ten and join you in that final game.

Now do you understand why it looks possibly suspicious? Now you understand why this is the perfect place to chip dump? You are helping out your bud. And with a small field of players, you are much more likely to run into them sooner or later.

I have not gotten a response yet. They told my friend it is being looked into.

Looks like a typical game to me. esp when you say, plays great until late, then goes out with a stupid call, two overcards to the board in his hand. In real cash games, I see the same thing, in 10, 20 hands the person is gone. Nothing to do with chipdumping. They are there to gamble in my opinion.

jimmylytle2 said:

Looks like a typical game to me. esp when you say, plays great until late, then goes out with a stupid call, two overcards to the board in his hand. In real cash games, I see the same thing, in 10, 20 hands the person is gone. Nothing to do with chipdumping. They are there to gamble in my opinion.

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Read it again. You missed a few things, clearly.

I have heard of things like this happen before...

There is a $3 r/a on Party to the $215 200K gtd, I've heard there was a group that will play this together to get all them in the $200K at a cost of a lot less than the $215 buy-in. I also believe they were reported and they are under investigation.

I played this $3 r/a tourney a few tines but it played too weird to continue. There is a big benefit to playing that way if your second win converts to tourney $'s

z28_RoadRage said:

I have heard of things like this happen before...

There is a $3 r/a on Party to the $215 200K gtd, I've heard there was a group that will play this together to get all them in the $200K at a cost of a lot less than the $215 buy-in. I also believe they were reported and they are under investigation.

I played this $3 r/a tourney a few tines but it played too weird to continue. There is a big benefit to playing that way if your second win converts to tourney $'s

Click to expand...

Before I get started, I really like your signature line about planning; that is so true. And cool. I almost used a similar one, by my love of Star Trek overruled me, lol.

Ok, well, in addition to this individual issue, I started a thread that asked if a few things I thought of, if they could be stopped or caught;https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/can-any-site-stop-prevent-type-226876/

One posted response was an email a guy got from pokerstars. Apparently there were some funny things going on in a game he was at and it was either reported or the site caught it. They refunded his money.

So, they are more aware now. In the early days it took a boatload of players complaining to get the ball rolling. Not anymore. I find it interesting that more people thought this was not cheating than did. I mean, how much more suspicious could this get?

I think that there will always some slimeballs looking to make a quick buck. Thankfully they are often not the sharpest tool in the shed, rather just plain old tools, lol.