Can I develop into a good tournament player without..

playing cash games?
Do you think it's possible to be a better tournament player without playing in cash games?

(I dont have time to learn to play both well )

Yes. I have actually never heard someone say that you have to learn cash games before you play tournaments. Cash game poker and tournament poker have completely different strategies. Actually, the people that think that they are one and the same and treat them like that are the ones who will be consistent losers(probably at both). If you're just starting out, just focus on one, then as you become more proficient, if you want to change gears and try out the other, then go ahead, just remember that there is a difference.

There is a big difference in the two. Being good at cash games does not translate in being good at tournaments, and vice a versa. I am a much more accomplished cash game player, and i am good at tournaments, but the two I have to play completely different if I want to make a deep run.

I think that your game will move on and improve when you start playing cash games, especially post-flop play, but as others have said they are different.

+1
Tournaments is all about pre flop game. Cash - post flop.

+1

Tournaments is definitely about the pre-flop game. it definitely matters where your position is though. As long as you have position, you should be in good shape. Cash games generally mess up your tourny game. Never play the two at the same time lol.

Tournament is definitely way different than cash games. In cash games you can re-buy if you somehow screw up, but in tournaments, you're done once you screw up.

Deep stack tournament strategy has more similarity to cash game play, so if you're talking about "normal" online tournament stacks, the differences can be quite pronounced. However, it's an exaggeration to say cash and MTT are "completely" different. For example, you'll become more profitable in both by improving your ability to assess your opponents' styles and tendencies, and to adjust your play accordingly when suitable occasions arise.

The short answer is....YES

But if you are good at cash games too and can appreciate the differences, then your cash game experience will help you in tourneys, especially deep stacked tourneys where post-flop skill becomes important.

Presuming you are not a rank amateur I'd say no you don't need to learn to play both. I played cash games when I first started just to get a feel for it and created a decent static hand range. I then moved onto tournies which I enjoy much more and changed my stratergy completely to fit them. I don't play both though as |toruney play breeds bad tendancies. 250BB deep and I'll be jumping for joy at getting it in with AKs, see someone who is less than 20 bb deep raise from lp I take it as a steal and re-pop them. Probably actually better if you don't learn them both as you get bad habits. Same can be said for a cash player playing a tourney. Calling when slightly ahead and not considering ICM.

Just concentrate on one I'd say.

I think the biggest difference between cash games and tournaments is that in tournaments you have to take risks by stealing blinds that you would never take in cash games. Also, people respect your raises less in tournaments too though, so it becomes a pretty sticky situation. I think that cash games are better overall, because it gives the donks less advantage, so i would go ahead and learn the game first before busting into tournaments

any idiots with 2 cards can win tournaments.

Love it! That is so true though, one of the first MTTs I played I came 7th out of 800 runners, and I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Just won all the flips and draws I needed to. Only didn't win it because I was so clueless I let myself get blinded out

Yeah...absolutely no skill involved in tournament poker whatsoever

Play what you enjoy the most.
I hardly ever play cash because I think
tourny's and sng's are more exciting and fun.
there is a climax and a good 'buzz' when you win a tourny or sng,
whereas cash games is just about showing a profit.
to each his own.
gl

What is considered a deep stack tournament?
the ones i've played online (no rebuys)start with everyone at 75xBB chips.
I think that is deep enough.

Why would anyone want to steal blinds in a cash game?

I think it depends on the structure of the tournament.
longer run tournaments where everyone has a deep stack and slow moving blinds require some skill whereas coin flip tournaments (trying to finish the tournament as fast as possible with rapidly increasing blinds) requires less skill.

Very first night I played online, very first game I entered - - took down 2nd place of ~900+ runners. (although it was the 'Fergadonk on FTP'.. $1 buyin... but the $114 cash from a $1 buyin had me hooked, lol).
A saying that goes something like > Tournaments are like lotteries.. but the better players are showing up with more tickets.

+2
If you can learn the players around you, the chance of cashing out raises. They are watching you as well. If you have a regular cash game you are able to play in with some regular players, and have the opportunity to also watch them tournament style, you will see a change when it comes to betting. Always watch and learn the players around you. That 1 player might not change a thing from 1 to the other because he knows his opponents’ already!!

Standard is to start with 1500 chips and blinds of 10/20

Deep-stack would be 3000 or more starting chips with the same blind structure

It adds up to a lot over 100K hands

People steal the blinds in cash games. If you don't do it too you are continuously leaking money.

Even the speed/turbo tourneys require some degree of skill to consistently win at, you have to be able to pick your spots well. The point wasn't that there is no skill involved in tournament poker, more that it is possible for terrible players to win tournaments.

AHH, I see a big problem when I play live. I usually go an hour or 2 before a MTT starts and figure Ill warm up with some cash game. First off I dont feel too sharp when starting an MTT after I do this. 2nd if I lost some cash, Im already a little mad when the MTT starts. 3rd if I get deep live I find myself yawning as some of these 8pm start time might end at 2or 3 in morning if your DEEEEP.

But after reading a few thread here like this, Im gonna just stick with one game right now and deicded it wil be MTT's since like one live player told me. Just stick with MTTs right now and you know how much youre in for and it wont change as opposed to cash game where I havent grown a set to be able to stomache some of these big cash raises LOL(as someone told me quite a stake jump from .02/.04 or .05/.10 online to $1/$2 live) but also I gotta quit this switching from NL and PLO ring to x2 SNGs to MTTs all day long just switching around

LMAO, you obviously either don't play cash games or are an ATM.

As others have said there is a big difference between tourneys and cash games, but there is also a huge difference in type of tourneys. The quicker the blinds increase relative to the starting stack the faster you have to play and your starting hand range has to widen or you will (unless really lucky) blind off. Thus if you are playing a deep stacked tourney with 15-20 minute levels you can play fairly slowly with a tighter range, but with 6 minute levels and a starting stack of 1000 chips you are pretty much in a crap shoot and will have to take some chances to stay alive.

Anyone that says it doesn't take any skill to win a tournament is completely wrong. In "Turbo" tournaments, yes you have to get lucky in order to win it, therefore someone with no skill and a lot of luck can win, but as for normal structure tournaments and deep stack tournaments, the better players will almost always place the highest. You can't just wait around for hands like you can in cash games, you have to make moves pre-flop that wouldn't make sense in a cash game. So yes, of course you can play tournaments successfully before you play cash games, simply because they are different in so many ways.

The things they have in common are the math, reading skills, and of course just common poker knowledge so learn those things before you play either of them. But sometimes you can only learn with experience. Good luck.

as long as you know how to play poker, have a knowledge on how poker tournaments work you'll be fine. playing cash tables isn't going to hurt your chances, but its not essential either!

Cash games are somewhat irrelevant to learning how to play in tourneys. I used to be scared of tourneys, but now I love them. It's funny now because I feel comfortable playing in Tourneys and feel clueless when it comes to cash games.
In tourneys my main goal is usually (depending on the format) to try and win the top prize. The thing about a tourney is that you play until a finite end until somebody wins. In a cash game you play for as long/little as you like. Because of this this creates factors such as the bubble which can change other players play dramatically. In tourneys there are spots that I would push, that I wouldn't in cash games. To this end, there are spots (albiet very rare) when folding premium pocket pairs might be a good idea in a tourney.

I have a set of books by Harrington on Cash Games and Online 6 Max, and a set on Tournaments... they are completely different games, mindsets, philosophies of play...
Sometimes I confuse them and lose a whack. Don't do that
MTTs are good for me, as I am risk aversive and don't take to ring games very well... also, my ring charts point straight down while my MTT graph points up. essentially my tourney wins pay for my lousy ring games.
All good comments above re speed and size of tourneys, right now I am playing mainly regular blind structure, 10 min blinds, but 5 is OK sometimes too. Fields from 180 to 10,000.

BTW the mini tourneys here at CC are great value and great for learning from some tuff ole regs...

YES
I started with MTTs before cash games and I can hold my own in a $200 ring game. I have read that its easier to go from cash games to MTTs but Dan Harrington started with a tournament series.

Different emotional skills are required in tournaments. And depending on the structure of the tournament you will need a different set of skills altogether. The slower the structure the more you need to develop patience and discipline. The faster the structure the more you need to develop courage and have a sound knowledge of calling and shoving ranges.

In the long run, I believe cash games would be a better choice. But IMO theres nothing quite like spending $215 for a shot at winning 2 million. And that life changing money can only come from winning a tournament.

However, a good tournament base will help you to be a better cash player. A tournament player learns patience. This is a commodity usually lacking at a cash table.

Hey... easy now. ..


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I would write the exactly the other way round!

However, a good cash base will help you to be a better tournament player. A cash player learns patience. This is a commodity usually lacking at a tournament table.

I agree you need some patience in tourneys but you need more for cash games

It's probably a good Idea to became a good cash player, then play the MTT's.
If you're not ITM after a tourney, you can always go back to the cash games to get more buy-ins.

Very much so..yes.

Cash games are much more difficult to master from my experience and tournaments have a lot, lot more fish than in cash games.