Building a bankroll with DoN's

On Jan. 19th, I had $0.24 in my sportsbook poker acct. and a week off of work. With snow falling outside and nothing else goig on, I decided to give a try to the Fun Step tournaments and freerolls to see if I could build nothing into something.
At the same time, I discovered Cardschat and began reading many of the forums....and it motivated me to become a better player. I finally grinded out a victory in a Fun Step 3 and was awarded $1. I decided to try a $1.08 DoN game, was tired of the Fun Steps! I obviously had to win the first one or it was back to the steps. Fortunately, I won 3 before losing one.
My worst poker trait was always managing my bankroll....I have played online for about 12 years off and on. I have cashed out more than I have deposited over the years, but have never allowed myself to keep anything over $100 on a site. Therefore, I was always one downswing away from bankrupting my roll, which I often did because I would play above the levels I should have.
Reading some of the BRM threads on this site caused me to institute a plan for my play. I play the DoN's because they suit my style of play....and if you cash in 54% of them you are breaking even. My goal is to cash in 60% of the tournaments I play in. I figure that should be pretty easy at the $1-$3 levels, may be a lil' tougher at the $5-$20 levels.
I plan on staying at the $1.08 level until my roll reaches 20 buy-ins of the $2.16 level...$43.20. Then, I will move to the $2.16 level until I reach 30 buy-ins of the $3.24 level.....$97.20. I will move up to each subsequent level when I reach 30 buy-ins.
So far, so good!! 36-11 in my first 47 $1.08 DoN's!! I don't expect this winning pct. to continue, planned on it taking about 12 weeks to get to the $2.16 level, but at this pace I may be there before March 1st!
My questions to the other Cardschat forum members are these.........
Does anyone else on this forum exclusively play DoN's?? If so, when I get to the larger buy-in levels ($10.80 on up) does the play level improve too much to expect a 60% win rate??
Thanks in advance for any input!! Best of luck at the tables!!

I used to play DON exclusively a while ago and I did well building my BR up but found that in the long run, with varience and downswings, I couldnt maintain a decent ROI so I gave up playing them exclusively though I still play the odd one now and again.
I played up to $20 DON's and didnt find any significant improvement in the play at the higher levels.
I know that at least one CC member does very well at DON's but he is a far better player than me.
For an average player like me as I say in the long run I couldnt make them pay.

i enjoy double or nothings.......its nice to know that all you have to do is beat half the field and you double your investment

I'm going to guess at the $10.80 level you are looking at nowhere near a 60% winrate. I haven't played them but that is ridiculously optimistic. Like an 11% ROI on a game where opponents know how to play.

60% would be nice at $10.80 level...that's $1.20/tournament...might be a little lofty goal. That's down the road a ways though..gotta get to the $2.16 level first. One phase at a time...must focus!! Have found the PLO DoNs very soft...43-14 so far at the $1.08 level this campaign overall...15-4 PLO and 28-10 NLH. Nice to be able to play different games when the bad beat train starts to run you over in one or the other.

60% wins confirmed easy at lower levels. I'd say 70% is achieavable. I play $5 and under and have an ROI of around 15%. I would assume this would taper-off as you move up, but should still be beatable.

One member here, I think Ram, said he had a friend who plays fairly high levels of these and multi-tables a ridiculous amount of them, like 20 tables at a time or something. If I remember correctly he said his friend earns like $5/hr. from his winnings alone, not great. But, his same friend, when you include bonuses, rakeback, etc earns something like $70/hr playing the higher levels.

I'd say this is critical. If you want to try to make significant money at these at the higher levels, make sure you are on a good rakeback/VIP program since that's where a significant portion of your earnings will come from.

I wouldn't judge anything on $5 or higher don's without a big sample size. I assume the players get better as the stakes go up, like most poker games.

My question is, are these more profitable than super turbos?

It would be an interesting comparison, I think. ST anything is going to have WAY higher varience than DoN's, which are really low varience affairs. But, you'll also get way more volume playing ST ( and correspondingly more opportunities for rakeback and bonus-clearing).

So, really you're looking at comparing a high volume, high varience game with a low varience, relatively lower volume one. In the long-term who wins? Don't know. At any one point it time the high varience guy could either be way ahead, or way behind. Where they come-out in the long run, in comparison to each other? I wouldn't even know how to begin to quantify that.

I'd say no. Fish love high variance gambling games hence alot of them existing in super turbos. It the fishes game of choice. ALso when you say more profitable I presume you mean $/hr. Seen as though average game time is low as well as being able to lmultitable quite a few I think they are definitely more profitable.

I've been dabbling with these myself here lately... Honestly the lower levels seem to be fairly easy and I know I haven't played them optimally. My sample size isn't large enough yet but i'm running about 65% with an roi of about 15%, and honestly i'm still adjusting my strategy... I'm in a position where I don't have a huge roll online anymore and am trying to build it up in a fairly easy manner.

My only complaint is that I can't multi table as much as I'd like to... I'm going to start experimenting with 12 tables at a time here soon and that will have to be a mixture of buyin levels.

How many tables do you guys play when you are doing these? It seems to me a high volume AND a good rakeback are absolutely essential...

They re ok in my book when starting out playing SnGs but once you are any good regular SnGs are more profitable and much better for your overall game

I like the double ups, but they seem to go in swings....one night u win 4 of 5, next night its 1-5.....variance is a killer. It is good for the very tight player, rewards patience.

shouldnt these have less variance?

These are actually probably among the LOWEST varience poker games out there.

Yes. They do. In fact, I can't think of any type of poker that has less varience. Limit poker, maybe, but I doubt it. These should be very low-varience affairs. If you check the graph of a good player, over a large sample, it should be remarkable mainly for it's lack of huge swings and should slowly, but steadily, climb.

I like playing these but it always seems it turns into a shove fest. Seems like more luck than anything to me.

call me greedy but mt opinion about these is if u can beat 5 players to double up,then your only two more eliminations away from a normal sng cash wich in the long run should be more profitable.

This is all true, assuming you are a winning player. Your ROI should be higher in regular SnG's if you are a winning player. However, your varience will also be higher. For someone like Lucky who thinks that the varience in DoN's is bad, SnG's may not be the best choice.

Also, if you're interested in your hourly earnings v. ROI, then its not so clear-cut. DoN's tend to be very mechanical in nature and I find that I can multi-table many more DoN's at a time than I can regular SnG's. So even though I earn less per DoN, because I can play so many more of them at one time, I come-out ahead in hourly earnings by playing DoN's instead of regular SnG's.

Not sure what the attraction is with DON. I can think of nothing more boring and draining. The edge is small, the game is boring and I'd go for normal STT's over DON.

Eh it's far from the most interesting form of poker...

I guess I would say it's good for mindlessly grinding out a profit with relatively low variance/risk if you know what you are doing...

I bet I could run 30+ of these at a time and show a profit... you can almost write out a strategy to play them and handle most situations.

depends on what you are looking for...me? right now easy profit and a little bankroll building, after I get it up some I'll move on to something more interesting/challenging.

For me the "Double or nothing" tourneys on Titan Poker are the best on building a bankroll . It's anybody here playing on Titan Poker ?

I used to only play DoN's on Stars from 2008-2009. In that time I turned $30 into $2k. I would caution you about using a 20BI strategy. There were times when I would load up 24 tables, and only cash like one or two. Sometimes you just get screwed. It might be okay to just have 20 BI for the first few levels, say to $5. But I think you should hold more BI's for higher levels. Like at least 40 BI for $10 probably.

I am also playing the Fun Steps on Merge right now and trying to start a roll. I'm American so I am only allowed a few sites, and I couldn't deposit anywhere. I have a lot on Cake (which I can't withdraw from until I get to $500), but I want to play Merge!

DONs are my game of choice for over a year now. My 'secret' is to play the low limit turbos. I think the turbos attract a bunch of dead money, while the regular DONs attract the nits.

When black friday hit, I switched to Bodog and the players were even worse. I truly don't think I can lose money playing these turbo DONs. Still playing the $10 6 handed DONs and don't plan on moving up.

The play is pretty boring and I play pretty much ABC poker until end game. I do 4 tables at once, so I'm active enough to keep from getting too bored.

Anyone play these on Betfair? I'm thinking of switching from Everest, I think there's too many nits playing these here.

Well these things are treating me good so far... doubled my initial deposit in about 3 weeks and i haven't even been playing a huge volume...

almost feels too easy.

i may make a post with some strategy thoughts if people are interested...

I will say this much though, what my cards are frequently don't really even factor into my decisions... Your stack relative to the blinds, your stack relative to the other stacks at the table, position and keeping an eye on player tendencies all matter much more in so many places!

Is anyone on here primarily playing these currently? any stakes higher than $20?

That's an interesting take... I can't decide if I like turbos or normal ones more personally... Also I'd say I almost prefer more nits... i'm happy taking their blinds all day!


Some random thoughts...

1) Turbos obviously take less time, which means you can play a higher volume of these in the same time frame...huge plus

2) However... Even though I find the early levels boring... When there are multiple LAG fish swimming around they often do me the favor of taking one or two of themselves out while I get to sit there and fold my 20 chip blind... I kinda like them having a little longer to do this... also it's kinda hard to get in major trouble at the early levels, but many players let you VERY profitably set mine at these stages against them and you can get a huge payoff with low risk somewhat often

3) given that more laggy type fish survive to the later levels a little more often it sort of annoys me when you get to the 100/200 or 150/300 blind levels in a turbo with 8 people left and players who call all ins with A3o or J7s with stupid stack sizes cause hey...why not? (protip: don't do this)... so i find myself getting slighly more aggravated with turbos more often cause the fish sometimes turn it into more of a lottery then a poker game...


having said that I don't have a sufficient turbo sample size to REALLY say for sure and the volume advantage is a huge one so.... take this for what it's worth

I have built a few bankrolls on the backs of DoN games. The first ones I played were on Ladbrokes, there was nothing lower than a $5.50 game. The levels were 20 hands and all you had to do was play super tight until the blinds were high enough to merit stealing. Make a few steals, win one maybe two decent sized pots and fold into the money. The format has sadly changed these days.
I still play them now and then, but I cannot play them for any length of time these days. The strategy is about the same as when the games first became popular [ish].
I prefer the tight approach, but I do know some players who prefer to play loose and contest a lot of smaller pots.
Still a good way to build a roll though.

DoN's are great money makers if you are short on bankroll. I have played the micro DoN's and have made some pretty good money. Someone else said earlier that you may find more DONKs at the higher limits because DoN's are an easy way to double up. If you are a tight/aggressive player to start and can maybe double up within the first couple of rounds you should be good to cash on your DoNs. At least that is how I would get the most for my money in the beginning. After that, it's all about tightening up even more and getting in when the money is right.