Bubble Busts

C

ChipTowerz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
160
Chips
0
i have bubbled out of the last 5 tourneys i played its driving me CRAZY:eek:
i know to just go ahead and fold and place in the money but when i have premium hands i CANT lay those down . in a Bovada tourney earlier i had JJ someone all ins with 10,10,.. and the flop comes 10,10 i was like dammmmmmmmmmmmmmn . if i havent bubbled out the last spot before pay off thn ive been placing within the last few spots (3-5) of payout its been crazy, the last 2 days . guess all i can do is keep my head up and keep playing :( , i hope you've been having better results then i have last 2days with tourneys, because its terrible being bubbled out.

:smokin:

$ChipTowerz$
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
you really really really shouldnt be folding into the money, be aggressive raise hands, chip up while everyone else nits up. make money
 
C

ChipTowerz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
160
Chips
0
yeah i know duggs, thats what i've been doing last few still playing aggressive with the premium hands its just lately people have been lucking out on me and its got me thinking maybe i shouldve just kept folding lol but yeah i was playing aggressive things just didnt work out for me. i've lost decent amount of $ today from the tourneys, may just take few days-week off thats how frustrating its gotten me

$ChipTowerz$
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
yea it happens man, just replace your grind with some study, thats what i do when im downswinging
 
Poof

Poof

Made in the USA
Silver Level
Joined
May 21, 2008
Total posts
14,419
Chips
0
Good luck I hope it turns around for you.
 
BigCountryAA

BigCountryAA

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Total posts
762
Chips
0
i have bubbled out of the last 5 tourneys i played its driving me CRAZY:eek:
i know to just go ahead and fold and place in the money but when i have premium hands i CANT lay those down . in a Bovada tourney earlier i had JJ someone all ins with 10,10,.. and the flop comes 10,10 i was like dammmmmmmmmmmmmmn . if i havent bubbled out the last spot before pay off thn ive been placing within the last few spots (3-5) of payout its been crazy, the last 2 days . guess all i can do is keep my head up and keep playing :( , i hope you've been having better results then i have last 2days with tourneys, because its terrible being bubbled out.

:smokin:

$ChipTowerz$


Last few days have been the same for me. I was bubble boy in a few tournies because I felt I was in a good situation to make a play and got out flopped. Sometimes I wish I'd folded and made some sort of money for the time invested yet I know playing like that isn't gonna get me to the final table.

Just keep at it and good luck.
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Total posts
3,127
Chips
0
Who else read this as 'bubble butts'

I am disappoint.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
you really really really shouldnt be folding into the money, be aggressive raise hands, chip up while everyone else nits up. make money
Five tournaments is a miniscule sample size. This is easy to understand intellectually, but just being rational about it doesn't make the negative emotions we feel go away. I suspect many players, myself included, will never just accept short-term streaks of running bad without feeling some degree of disappointment, frustration, etc.

One thing that has helped me to feel less badly than I used to is studying my results over large sample sizes. When I remain properly aggressive approaching and at the bubble, my ITM % is a little lower. However, my ROI is higher; i.e. I make more money. This is obviously a desirable trade-off, but if you tighten up in order to cash, you are in effect refusing to make it.
 
C

ChipTowerz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
160
Chips
0
things have turned around for me , today i've been cashing out in small sngs but the buy ins arent more than $40, some are arenly $5 .. im just keeping it small time so if i do bubble it thn i wont be as frustrated you know?..

@bigcountryAA yeah times like that are tough but if we keep doing how we usually do it pays out for us in the long run.

@bgomez89 haha you crazy!! but yeah i noticed that myself when Quickly looking through forum for one to read that can be mistaken for "BUBBLE BUTTS" haha once i thought "damn, did i accidently type in bubble butts for real????" lol

@arjonius CORRECT! it SOOOO doesnt make the disappointment nor frustration go away, basically doing everything correctly and some1 luckily bubbles you out, or lucks out on you and chipstack so low and blinds SO high that the antes and blinds bubble you out, it sucks!

but yeah atleast 2day has been different and thanks to all for advice and understanding.

$ChipTowerz$
 
sam1chips

sam1chips

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Total posts
800
Chips
0
good to hear your at least having a little bit better success ChipTowerz...

For what it's worth (I'm not sure, the forum might or might not agree with me on this...) There have been some MTTs where I have folded some decent hands on or near the bubble with a small stack, especially when there is somebody lower than me at the table. And once I stumble into the money and then go out 3 or 4 hands later, there is no sense of accomplishment. I'm not like overly-happy that i cashed. I mean, a min cash is what, double the buy-in? After a decently big MTT field?
I don't know. It sucks to bubble, but it sucks to min-cash as well. (don't get my wrong, it definitely hurts more to bubble). I'd almost be happier with myself taking a chance with JJ, trying to double up, and hoping to get to the final table.

I'm not sure, just my opinion, that might not make sense but I tried to explain it as clearly as I could haha
 
B

baby kahuna

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Total posts
183
Chips
0
Take the time and google ICM Independent Chip Model. Usually used by SnG players. It gives you a whole different perspective on the bubble.
Making the money is important. Dont let that talk about "I only play for top 3 cause thats where the money is" confuse the issues. Poker is more complex than that. Each situation is different. Playing like a nit throughout the MTT from beginning to end probably wont get you to the top but there are times when you must take the value of making the money. The best scenario of course is that in the later stages we have a big enough stack to weather going in with premiums on the bubble.
But for example, if Im on the bubble with a marginal stack and there is 5 runners with only 2 BBs left, Ill fold AA if a big stack shoves and he gets a call. It only makes sense. Now if Im one of those shorties you know Im all in.
But sometimes you have to retreat from a battle to win the war.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
^ this isnt a sng, sng have a relatively flat payout, MTT's have an incredibly top heavy payout so your argument doesnt hold, we should be trying to increase our chips by widening our range not tightening it
 
P

pierceisgod

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Total posts
82
Chips
0
Your just in a bit of a slump but dont go for min cash, try to win some blinds but dont play aggressively and try to create a big stack to have a cushion.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,600
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
There have been some MTTs where I have folded some decent hands on or near the bubble with a small stack, especially when there is somebody lower than me at the table. And once I stumble into the money and then go out 3 or 4 hands later, there is no sense of accomplishment. I'm not like overly-happy that i cashed. I mean, a min cash is what, double the buy-in? After a decently big MTT field?
I don't know. It sucks to bubble, but it sucks to min-cash as well. (don't get my wrong, it definitely hurts more to bubble). I'd almost be happier with myself taking a chance with JJ, trying to double up, and hoping to get to the final table.

I'm not sure, just my opinion, that might not make sense but I tried to explain it as clearly as I could haha
I think many (most?) can relate to this (at one point or another... or maybe still).
But when I look down & see 'JJ'... the pile is pretty much getting in there whatever way I can get it in there. lol (JJ is not taking a chance for me.... JJ is the nuts!)
 
B

baby kahuna

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Total posts
183
Chips
0
^ this isnt a sng, sng have a relatively flat payout, MTT's have an incredibly top heavy payout so your argument doesnt hold, we should be trying to increase our chips by widening our range not tightening it

I agree SNGs are different however we can use some of the techniques we employ in SNGs across the board. Of course we should be trying to increase our chips and widen our range. But we are talking about the bubble here. I am not equating SNGs with MTTs.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
and because peoples natural instinct is to tighten up to secure their mincash, we can exploit this by opening wider, DURING the bubble
 
D

davem86

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Total posts
1,725
Chips
28
I came across hands like this many of times. Its better to play those hands and try to maximize your stack for Final tables and the money then to just miss/bubble by not playing these type hands. we all run bad from time to time just being able to deal with the swings of poker is what defines most of us. Goodluck and it will change for you.
 
F

fordman427

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Total posts
492
Chips
0
I also have trouble laying hands like JJ but you are right just keep your head up and don't get discouraged!
 
N

Nooneinparticular

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Total posts
109
Chips
0
^ this isnt a sng, sng have a relatively flat payout, MTT's have an incredibly top heavy payout so your argument doesnt hold, we should be trying to increase our chips by widening our range not tightening it

This. Bubble Factor is to be exploited and stealing range goes out the window, to be replaced by tons of things like 10 7 suited, 34s, and so on. Actually keeping the bubble going is better than getting someone out. The amount you can steal on the bubble is massive, the longer the bubble, the better.

Attack the mid stacks, not the small stacks. Small stacks pushing range will actually widen and beat your steal range quite often, with you prices in to make the call. Mid stacks will be happy to sit and wait to make the minimum cash....

MTTs are about winning, not making the min payout for a 50% profit after 4+ hours!

enjoy
 
C

ChipTowerz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
160
Chips
0
THANKS everyone for your insights and suggestions! yeah bad runs are tough, but heard from ALOT that it happens to the best of us and that it will eventually make my game stronger..hopefully that eventually will come soon!;)

$ChipTowerz$
 
B

baby kahuna

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Total posts
183
Chips
0
and because peoples natural instinct is to tighten up to secure their mincash, we can exploit this by opening wider, DURING the bubble
Yes I agree wholeheartedly with you in theory and concept. But poker is not absolute. You have to have alternative strategy in each situation. Have you never tightened up to make it in while there were short stacks that would not survive an orbit? Next time youre at a live major tourney see all the pros walking around seeing how many short stacks there are near the bubble. Happy that they arent gonna lose their backers money and get booted of his list.
I have. I got a pass into a 10K and out of 300 I played well and when we got to the bubble I saw there was some shorties and I waited them out and came in the money for $17,700. The most I have ever won. Yeah first place paid $1 Million but at a table with Tony Ma, Mike Sexton, John Hennigan, Justin Bonomo, etc it wouldve been tough to fade the field. I just didnt have the skills. Of course that was 4 years ago and my game has vastly improved.
Id love to be able to exploit the bubble under all circumstances but I dont. It depends on the situation
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
^ you realise the solution to your problem above is to not play a 10k event, and its hardly logical to be proud of your biggest score thats less than a buy in of profit.

I can honestly say iv never nitted it up through a bubble even at the top end of my buyin spectrum, (the obvious exceptions being with sattys and where i have lost a flip, have 1/2bb on the stone hand for hand bubble, and elect to fold and bust the next hand.)
 
B

baby kahuna

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Total posts
183
Chips
0
^ you realise the solution to your problem above is to not play a 10k event, and its hardly logical to be proud of your biggest score thats less than a buy in of profit.

I can honestly say iv never nitted it up through a bubble even at the top end of my buyin spectrum, (the obvious exceptions being with sattys and where i have lost a flip, have 1/2bb on the stone hand for hand bubble, and elect to fold and bust the next hand.)

Nono you misunderstand. I did not buy into it. I won an entry. So it was 100% profit. Sorry if I came of sounding "proud" but I played with some of
the worlds best players. I didnt come in first. I survived. Yeah and I am proud. I learned a lot and realized that a pro is something special and I was not. But my study and work had kept me afloat. Dont take that away from me.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
if you sattied in then its perfectly fine to nit through for a min cash, but its clearly sub optimal
 
C

ChipTowerz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
160
Chips
0
@baby kahuna NICE! must've been awesome, and yeah if that was 4 years ago you'd get it in really good now a days! thank you for sharing something you experienced and really good to profit 17thou reall nice man!!
 
Top