On the Bubble with Aces

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NCDaddy

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Just had this happen to me:

$10+$1 SS on Bovada

I'm sitting with about $22k in chips. Blinds are 500/1000. Table I'm at has been super aggressive with most of the chips of the tournament at this table. Table capt has over 100k and is very active with a variety of hands and is very LAG. Average stack was around 35k. We're down to 10 players and i'm in 6th. I pick up AA in the BB. Chip leader min raises from UTG. It's the age old question ....do I fold to try and cash? OR do I gun it and hope to double through? Or just call and see a flop and then shove?
 
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skrsh76

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I think Aces are still good for a shove
 
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WiZZiM

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3 bet and try not to get too excited.
 
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,the old "min cash or play for the win" situation!

i think u should play the hand as normal, maybe shove and not play too sneaky. One deep run is better than a few min cashes, and if ur currently in 6th a double up should put you in the top 3 and a cash is pretty much guaranteed.

he might call u with Ax and ur in great shape.

i take it it didnt go well?!
 
steffdbird

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Just had this happen to me:

$10+$1 SS on Bovada

I'm sitting with about $22k in chips. Blinds are 500/1000. Table I'm at has been super aggressive with most of the chips of the tournament at this table. Table capt has over 100k and is very active with a variety of hands and is very LAG. Average stack was around 35k. We're down to 10 players and i'm in 6th. I pick up AA in the BB. Chip leader min raises from UTG. It's the age old question ....do I fold to try and cash? OR do I gun it and hope to double through? Or just call and see a flop and then shove?
I would defo ship you don't play to min cash, you play to win and pocket aces are totally dominating your op's range as you said he has been very active and could just be trying to blind steal. so I would just ship. I wouldn't slow play and call or re-raise as you can get into trouble then if he hit flush or two pair :p.


Hope this helps steff :)
 
mapt02h

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You have 22bb, you want to accumulate as many chips as possible. Depends on various factors - how does villain react to 3bets? is he likely to call a 3bs for 22 bb? Speaking of which 22bb 3bet shove is a bit too big. So, it's better to re-raise smaller, to about 5bb and try and get more action.

Please do not fold aces in a normal tournament, ever.
 
NCDaddy

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i take it it didnt go well?!

Nope. I'll give action sequence and results in a bit. I wanted to get some feedback though. I'm usually "it's aces...let's go" but...the min cash tempted me to think of other options.
 
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I would three bet to about 7.5BB-8BB to give the guy room to shove over the top. After all, the raiser probably knows his image so doing this on the bubble seems a bit fishy. And if he shoves you're obviously calling and being at least a four to one favourite unless you're up against the next best hand, which is the two other aces. Even if you pick up the blinds, they are a ten percent increase in your stack considering you are shallow stacked and you will get some guaranteed chips if he folds. You'll also have a chance to create an image that you're abusing the bubble short handed.
 
el_magiciann

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Of course i would try to double in this situation, you have 22bb which isn't good enough and you should play for top 3 in every tourney i think that should be your philosophy! : )
 
micalupagoo

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dont play to min cash, that was my old game, CC taught me better
on bubble Id just shove it, not caring if he calls or not
tho a nice size 3bet and shoving flop may be better
sucks to be bubble boy but 1 win (or close too) is worth soooo many min cashes its really the reason we play- to win-dont play scared
 
IPlay

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Is this seriously a question? Lmao

If you fold AA in this spot pre, just quit poker now please.
 
RCtheDabbler

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The only time i'd consider folding was if there was multiple all ins before me (over 3) and i needed the money. Otherwise i'd raise and play like normal.
 
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AA could be folded at the satellites i think) or the multipot(above 5 players)
 
Ronaldadio

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First things first. If you lose this hand, u lose this hand...nothing can be done about this.

One thing u do know is that u r ahead.

Based on what u have said, I.m assuming everyone else has folded? If they have or have not, I guess, I would push all in.

It is the normal 2 reasons...
1) Get heads up with the calling station
2) Get your chips in when u r way ahead, heads up.

I have thought about this question before and I think, unless the money I'm folding for is life changing, I don't think I could fold AA preflop.

Even if there were a few players all in, I doubt I would fold :)
 
NCDaddy

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Is this seriously a question? Lmao

If you fold AA in this spot pre, just quit poker now please.

Seriously is a question. If our #1 job as players is to make money....which it is....there could be an argument for folding here and min cashing. No?

Someone else said "if it isn't life changing money I'm pushing". I like that. That makes sense. But, if it is life changing money - do you fold?!?! Fair question I think but one that doesn't really apply here. Just food for thought.

Anyway: I pushed (it was heads up). He snap called with 10 10. Flop was q k 3. Turn was a 10. river was pointless. I wondered if just calling shoving on the flop would've gotten him to fold? Given villains past actions, I doubt it...but the thought of that crossed my mind. Oh well. Next tourney, please. Thanks for the input folks.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Seriously is a question. If our #1 job as players is to make money....which it is....there could be an argument for folding here and min cashing. No?

Someone else said "if it isn't life changing money I'm pushing". I like that. That makes sense. But, if it is life changing money - do you fold?!?! Fair question I think but one that doesn't really apply here. Just food for thought.

Anyway: I pushed (it was heads up). He snap called with 10 10. Flop was q k 3. Turn was a 10. river was pointless. I wondered if just calling shoving on the flop would've gotten him to fold? Given villains past actions, I doubt it...but the thought of that crossed my mind. Oh well. Next tourney, please. Thanks for the input folks.

don't be results oriented. always be happy to get it in preflop with AA heads up....even with the classic example of folding AA preflop on the bubble in a supersatellite- if that supersatellite player were to go all in with them instead, he would only be making a small mistake...not a big one. In a regular tourney (even on the bubble, even for life changing money) you can't really ever fold AA heads up preflop.

For the record, if this was the main event bubble, we are playing hand for hand and I have 22bbs I am all too excited to get it in with AA preflop. KK, I'm less excited about, but still never folding with 22 bbs. QQ....now I might have to stop and think about a few things...
 
IPlay

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Seriously is a question. If our #1 job as players is to make money....which it is....there could be an argument for folding here and min cashing. No?

Someone else said "if it isn't life changing money I'm pushing". I like that. That makes sense. But, if it is life changing money - do you fold?!?! Fair question I think but one that doesn't really apply here. Just food for thought.

Anyway: I pushed (it was heads up). He snap called with 10 10. Flop was q k 3. Turn was a 10. river was pointless. I wondered if just calling shoving on the flop would've gotten him to fold? Given villains past actions, I doubt it...but the thought of that crossed my mind. Oh well. Next tourney, please. Thanks for the input folks.

Why play poker at all if you are folding AA preflop in a heads up situation? Just get a new hobby, play for the money sure, but folding AA preflop in this situation would be horrible.

You got your money in the middle an 80% favorite and villain got lucky, it happens.

Also, this thought is why people play so loose near the bubble because the fish will fold huge hands just to make the min cash and not think about first place. I don't even play tournaments and I know this.
 
Poker Orifice

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Seriously is a question. If our #1 job as players is to make money....which it is....there could be an argument for folding here and min cashing. No?
No.

Someone else said "if it isn't life changing money I'm pushing". I like that. That makes sense. But, if it is life changing money - do you fold?!?! Fair question I think but one that doesn't really apply here. Just food for thought.

Anyway: I pushed (it was heads up). He snap called with 10 10. Flop was q k 3. Turn was a 10. river was pointless. I wondered if just calling shoving on the flop would've gotten him to fold? Given villains past actions, I doubt it...but the thought of that crossed my mind. Oh well. Next tourney, please. Thanks for the input folks.
Calling & then shoving flop would be bad... you'd be shoving for what ~3.5x Pot? (what hand that we beat will likely call there?)

I think 3bai is good 'if' you figure you have better chances of getting the chips into the middle this way (villain might be more apt to call off with med pp's, not believing you're shoving with the top of your range). Otherwise I'd consider 3-betting to ~2.3x the size of their bet in hopes they'll gii. (& if they flat the 3-bet, prolly lookin' to crai on the flop as from your description of villain, I'd imagine they'll be betting flop if you check to them).

As far as the hand played out, 'nh'. I'd say it was perfect! The 3bai got exactly the results one would think you were (or should be) hoping for!
(to look back & think you should've looked at playing it differently than you did, when it got the most desired result is just not good (results orientated thinking).
 
Poker Orifice

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..even with the classic example of folding AA preflop on the bubble in a supersatellite- if that supersatellite player were to go all in with them instead, he would only be making a small mistake...not a big one.

I'd have to strongly disagree with this ^ part of your statement.
 
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trent32la

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AA is a hand you should never be folding in that spot....you have a perfect opportunity to stack someone as an 80% favorite at least.....the only time you can consider folding AA pre is if this were a satellite and there's no bonus for finishing higher....in this spot put yourself in a spot to finish higher with a bigger chip stack!
 
trekmaster

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Not sure if I would shove here being he already raised.Mabey a smooth call hoping for him to lead out again and then make the shove but I def would have all my chips in after the flop.
 
loafes

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There is a question here, its weather to 3 bet or shove. Folding simply isn't on the agenda.

Which you chose should be based on what you think gets the most money in the middle. It seems like a 3 bet probably gets called more often but a shove looks weaker like a mid PHP so may get called by more plus you don't need to worry about bad flops losing you value.


So 3 bet for value or shove for value. If you consider folding then you aren't cut out to be a poker player.
 
Ronaldadio

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If you consider folding then you aren't cut out to be a poker player.

This has been said a few times in different ways. In the case of OP's hand, IMO it is a shove.

However, there are times when u should/ could fold AA.

Final table, wsop. You are on the BB and short stack at table with AA

EVERYONE goes all in before you.

IMO, if you call here you are NOT a top poker player, you are nothing more than a poker player with an ego that can't fold the best hand.

THIS scenario, you are guaranteed to make more money folding than calling. This, for me anyway, is why I play poker - to make a bit of cash, not to prove I have a massive ego :)
 
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