BETTING STRATERGY...

Ok so lately I have seen some insane raises, people going all-in for 5 grand on a 60 pot and stuff like that. I just really do not understand what goes through peoples minds when they risk a nice stack of chips on a trash pot cause 9 out of 10 times if they are called they are dominated and will be watching everyone else play the next hand. I think it was last week in Carbon that I was sitting there in our game watching all-in after all-in and all it got was a few chips from a pot limped into by a couple people or got someone knocked out. So I made a joke about someone needing to make a post about betting, so I figured I would make the post and talk about how I come up with some of my betting and hope someone would enlighten me as to why people would risk it all over so few chips.

Now I know you see pros "overbetting" pots sometimes on t.v. but it is still under control. You may see them bet 1600 into a 1200 pot, a nice overbet of the pot but that is a long way from pushing all-in for 30k in that same 1200 pot, the risk vs reward becomes to high. A small over bet can seem like you are trying to steal the pot to entice a call but an over bet like that just makes no sense at all. Odds are most people wont call a bet like that without a monster hand and then you are out and for what? A tiny little pot that wasn't much more than a standard raise preflop and now you are out when you had a nice stack and there was no reason at all to risk it with even a marginal hand. Now on the other hand lets say you do have a big hands or maybe even the nuts, if your hand is that strong then most of the time whoever is in the hand can't have that big of a hand so there is almost no way they will call you there and you don't make anything on it. That sums up the whole point I'm trying to make... When you have a hand you want calls if they fold you don't make anything on it and it was a waste of a strong hand. When you are bluffing you don't want a call but you really don't want a call of your all-in on a tiny pot that you were trying to steal.

It is very rare that I make a bet bigger than the pot and the few times I will are when I am short stacked. If the pot is 1200 and I have 1600 and know that I can't make a decent raise without committing over 1/2 my stack and therefore pot committing the other person to calling me on the next bet which will be all-in. For most of my betting I stick to the 2/3-3/4ths the pot for all my bets, bluff, made hand or drawing hand. I'm not going to advertise what my hand is by making a stupid bet I try to keep about all bets in this range. The exceptions are if there is a draw out there I may make it a pot bet to push out some chasers or may make a smaller bet to build the pot a little and see what the next card is then make a bigger bet once I know they missed. The other times that I change my betting are mostly when I have a big hand so I know anyone else in the hand can't be that strong so I make a weak looking bet. Say I raised it 3 times the big blind preflop and flop a set with no real draws I may make a 3 times the BB bet again cause I know that people will call that so I get to build the pot up bet looking like I am making a scared continuation bet then maybe on the turn make a big bet to look like I am stealing the pot. Now some of the better players have started catching onto this and are more likely to fold to my smaller bets than a big one so I do have to change it up person to person but still all the bets make sense and it all works to get called when I want and gets remembered when I am bluffing.

Other bets I may make are I may make a reraise in position when on a draw not an all-in unless I am short stacked but just a reraise from late position to control pot size. If I flop a flush draw and someone makes a 2/3 pot raise from early position I may make a reraise because they will be more likely to check the turn after getting reraised so then I have the option to check the turn to and see the river without calling anywhere close to as much. This also allows me when I check the turn people often see this as a sign that I was stealing and will bet the river at me and if I made my hand can reraise again and extract more chips. For those that may not understand this I will explain it the way I learned it. It was a while ago I was at a $2/1 cash table at ap and from under the gun catch aces. So I make a standard 3.5 times the bb raise to $7 and the button calls everyone else folded, pot $17. Flop at6 with 2 hearts, I bet $10 and get reraised to $22, now I'm sitting her like yep this damn fool is about to mess up cause I know that I am atleast 66% chance to win this hand no matter what he has, but with the reraise I put him on a made hand maybe even ace ten and all but drawing dead, Pot size $61. So turn comes and was a blank so I check to the reraiser planning on check raising this time but he checks. River was hit other heart I'm first to act and bet $45 into him and he comes over the top all-in for around a $100 more. Now I look at the board and realize what he did and I am sitting here with trip aces and had I bet the turn real hard he would have folded instead I have $75 in a $200 pot and can't call. I wanted to soooo bad and even showed my hand. He was nice enough to show his and I asked how the hell he reraised me with a weak draw like that as tight as I was playing? He said he saw me trap so many people already at this table he knew if he reraised I would check raise the turn and if he didn't hit he could have seen the river for free. I was pissed but it made perfect sense and worked great for him. Kind of a expensive lesson but one I learned quick.

So now that I have talked about what goes through my head when I am coming up with a bet can someone please tell me what people are thinking when there is a limped pot worth 100 chips and they go all-in on the flop for 20 times the pot. I know there are different playing styles for every person but this takes maniac aggressive to a whole new level and it seems to happen more and more. I am thinking of calling this style "Retarded Aggressive", I think it fits.

They are usually thinking, "I have very little invested in this game so I might as well gamble and try to get a big stack."

The greater the buy-in for the tournament, the less you will see these people.

There's no use even complaining about it in freerolls.
In micro stakes games, people are often frustrated or impatient and don't care about their $2 or whatever.

This is very useful information to me. I generally only do freerolls at this time because I'm still learning about playing Poker! And I have learned how to cut my losses if the pot is less than that what I would bet. I'm just starting my 10th week of EVER playing poker, but I know one thing. I've had AA before & raised accordingly, but even AA is only a pair and can lose to 222 ! I also learned the hard way that a King-high flush will lose to an Ace-high flush! I lost around 35,000 chips that evening ! I was asked in my very 1st CC Freeroll yesterday(UB 9/10) by Graf as to how far I would 'limp in' & I replied 'you'll never know'...that's because I don't know how far I'll allow someone to push me! I finished a respectable #24 and had pretty bad cards from the start. I play each hand individually...I do tend to call if I know the others have a much larger chip stack than I do, but I REALLY would like to last till I burst through the bubble & build a bankroll for myself! I have broken through once so far...8/30 Carbon Twitter Freeroll...40 got paid...I made it to #15...only $1.10, but to me it was priceless! It proved that I could hold my own against so many that actually have played for years! So now my goal is to win! I'm not there YET, but some time I may surprise everyone! A friend got me into Poker & I love it! But you have to roll with the punches & accept that sometimes no matter how much you may strategize in a hand, the luck of the cards dealt & the human factor will change every time!

I hope you've enjoyed your 10 weeks and congrats on your first cash. Posts about over-shovers show up every ince in a while in this and other forums. Frankly, I think people pay too much attention to this kind of play. Granted it's annoying, but it's also very easy to play against. All you need to do is decide what your calling range is, then wait and see if an appropriate situation arises.

Thanks...I have really enjoyed these past weeks! It's been a blast (usually )...and sometimes I'm the one being blasted out of the game! LOL! But I learn something new about myself each time, including to know when I'm 'on tilt'. If I let others get to me or I'm too tired after a very long day, then I generally make costly mistakes! But I try to take a step back and try to relax or have some Caffeine to wake up, & go on accordingly. I complement others on their great hands or strategies, no matter how soundly I've been beaten! I think that's the only way to play poker...with gusto & class! I was taught to always be polite & to do harm to no one!

It's really important to see what their pushing with. One theory is to push with the nuts and push with your bluffs. This can actually be a mathematically effective strategy because if they don't have enough to call, you win the pot. Sometimes they will call and you have the nuts. The problem is everyone wants to be paid off when they have a big hand and making a small bet is more likely to get called thus making money for you.

However, it sounds like these people are going all in when they have medium to strong hands (because they are out kicked on flop). The strategy for these people is to reduce your pre-flop hands. With big pairs AA-QQ, you can get paid off when they have AJ and hit a J on the flop and push all in. You can also play pairs trying to hit sets. The implied odds for small pairs preflop are incredible. If you get a set, you might be able to stack them. I wouldn't play suited connectors because you don't flop the flush and straight often enough to play and you won't have the correct pot odds to call an all in if you have straight and flush draws.

It definately is an irrating style to play against. Remember to be patient. If you loose your cool, and stop playing your game they have already succeed.

I'm doing the same thing, and let me share something with you: freerolls are an entirely different game. People do really strange things, things that would never happen in a "real" poker game.

The other night I was one of two big stacks at the table and I was dealt AA. I had position and a few people called so I did a 5x BB bet preflop in hopes of taking the pot and moving on to the next hand. The other big stack came back over the top. So I shoved all-in and she called. She had Q5o. I can pretty much guarantee you that once you reach a certain level of play, you will never see that. Anyhow, she ended up turning that into a straight and cracking my aces. It's frustrating, but it happens.

Just remember going from freerolls to cash that they are two completely different games! For instance, near the beginning of a freeroll, I can't play JQ like I normally do because if I do it will bring three all-ins. So, it's just a different game.

Good luck to you. It's rough in those freerolls, I know!

-Dave

Thanks for the advice, Dave. I know that I should never bet all-in in a freeroll at the beginning...this was a CC freeroll...Pifan went all-in pre-flop & I figured since I had AA that I would go all-in too...he was so lucky....he had 99 & won with a 9 turning up in the river! I finished in place #21! OUCH! However, he may not be so lucky next time ! LOL!

Good, solid way to play, imo. Beginners could do worse than study and memorise that core part of Spiderman`s post.

sorry maid marion i have no clue when this happened . i know it sucks to be sucked out apon . maybe i was tilting , mabe chipstack to pot size i was comited ,position , i dont know what happened

if you went out 21st it wasnt the beginning of a freeroll but again im sorry shit happens

and i do hope im lucky again in same situation lol

Spiderman its the same way in micro ring games I've seen people turn over Q-5 pushing their whole stack in thinking they can push someone off the pot, then rebuyin and doing the same thing again

They are usually thinking, "I have very little invested in this game so I might as well gamble and try to get a big stack."

The greater the buy-in for the tournament, the less you will see these people

i agree with this statement totally, ppl r always risking their stack to get a bigger stack, thats where it's nice to actually have a hand so that when ppl r tryin to buy the pot, u can fire back and simply call them and take their whole stack

It was CC Carbon freeroll...Saturday...I think, anyway! It was only my second CC Freeroll...It was just before break...I couldn't believe you went all in with 99 pre-flop...so i went all-in with AA...You won when the 9 swept up in the river ! I still finished #21...I forgive you THIS TIME! LOL! But next time, beware! He-he !
Till we meet again...I'm truly not mad...I had a blast just being in that CC Freeroll!

if it was a cc freeroll

friday = carbon
saturday = full tilt

Hi Pifan, I just rechecked my time/date at Carbon ...it was Friday, Sept. 11...Cardschat $100 Freeroll Game #20390658-1 ! Sorry, I've been playing so much lately... See you next time!

In beginning of the tournament, people bet their whole chipstack because they don't care. Only thing that's in their mind is "i either wanna become chip leader early in the tournament or bust out early. I have nothing to lose but lots to gain". There's no strategy involved. I only do this in public freerolls where I have no respect for people's raises. I however, don't do this in cardschat freeroll because I like to play a game, a "real game".