Add On Strategy?

Hi, Its been a while since I last posted on this forum but I would like to ask about add ons.

Recently I have been playing in a 10 hand No limit game, that has a £10 buy in and £10 rebuy or add on up to the fourth blind. Only one rebuy or add on is allowed per player and it buys an additional 5000 chips.

My question relates as to whether it is always a good investment to take the add on. Most of what I have read seems to say that you should always buy as many chips as you can as soon as you can, but like any independent thinking poker player I am beginning to question this wisdom.

Let suppose an extreme case in which I have gone on an unstoppable rampage eliminating all but one player including rebuys by the end of the rebuy period. I have 99000 chips and the other player only 1000. In this situation it would seem a bit ludicrous taking a 5000 chip add on as it would double my cash stake in the game for a very small percentage increase in my chips.

Now lets assume the opposite extreme in which i am the poor unfortunate in the above example. Would I spend another £10 to gamble that I could turn things around and win the game? - probably not would anyone out there disagree?

If you would agree with these two examples, then the point at which an add-on becomes a good investment must lie somewhere between these two extremes.

Surely the golden rule before buying the add on must be - does this doubling of my stake in the game from £10 to £20, double my chances of winning it (or perhaps getting into a paid place).

What do you think?? Cheers woody

You need to buy the add-on at the start. That will either give you n imediate chip lead or put you equal to the others, either way its better to do itat the start of a tournament than to use the add on as a get out of jail free card.

As usual, Stu Unger is dead on (ouch, sorry, the real Stu has passed on, hasn't he?) --- You have more options with a bigger stack from the get go...in some games only half your table will take the add-on, so you are already at a big advantage from the start.

Thanks for the responses, in the game I was talking about you can only take the add on at the end of the rebuy period if you have not already rebought so this would be prior to the start of the fourth blind.

I accept that a bigger stack gives you more options but would it necessarily double your chances of getting in the money. If it didnt then surely it would be a bad investment if it doubles your stake.

Happy New Year by the way!

I watched a poker video lesson that teaches about rebuy, addon tournaments. It is said there that you should enter a rebuy tournament with enough cash to be able to have a couple of rebuys/addon, and rebuy if you can try to double up with the rebuy then get addon if you want to go for a good chance for the first prizes with the big wins.

Thanks, in the game that I am involved in, we are only allowed one rebuy and if its not used then we can purchase an add on at the end of the third blind period

Thats a fairly unusual way of doing it, but if its the way they do it then its the way they do it.

In that case assuming you havnt rebought back in, the best stratagy is to not buy an add-on if the result of buying it would leave you with less than the average size stack or if it left you in a shortstack position (20BB) or pretty close to that (although I cant think how this would ever occur)

If you are above the average chip stack then the best thing to do is to buy the add-on.

You may think its a waste of money.. but reealistically how many chips would you have at this point 20,000? 30,000 .. an aditional 5,000 is still a decent amount and will give you a bit more of an edge as the blinds begin to rapidly increase.

The problem with rebuys and addons is people dont really think about how they effect play in a tournament and thus enter tournaments which they are not bankrolled for.

When a tournament is a rebuy event, you shouldn't look at the single buy-in fee and consider that the cost.

Instead you should allow for 3 or 4 (or more) buyins. The reason is the rebuy allows people to play manically for a while, hoping to get lucky and double up a few times before the break. If they do so they are in a commanding position, if they dont they just buy back in.

With the example of the tournament you enter the cost is the cost of the entryfee + the addon/rebuy amount. Its not really an question of should I risk additional money to play in this event.. more should I only play half the fee for half the chips.

Its something that I would imagine catches many people out on say $300+ rebuys.. people see the fee and think they can aford it but dont factor in thatits a rebuy or add on event.. if they did they would see that the real fee is several times that figure.

Not factoring this in would be a disadvantage in the longrun because you are not giving yourself the same advantage as players who view it this way.

I think the rough rule you should use in your decision for this type of tournament is this.. look at the 5000 chips and ask yourself two things.

1. would you be pleased with a $5000 chip pot win... would that be a good pot or a small one for you at this point.

2. how easily could you fold a hand after putting $5000 into the pot?

If the chips represent a small win which you could very easily fold then its not worth buying. If it is either a big win or a big loss then you should buy it.

As I said, if the buyin still leaves you under the average chip stack.. then its time to get up andleave.

well i Rebuy rite away at the start, then i addon at the first break, its been working out for me just fine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, buck

Thanks Stu, the add on is purchased prior to the fourth blind level which is 200/400 so the 5000 chips is actually only 12.5BB's so it is quite possible to to purchase it and still be under 20BB's. I think I had already realised that this would not be a good position to spend another £10 on.

In fact had I only managed to keep my chip stack stable throughout the rebuy period, the add on would only mean that I would have 25BB's so not exactly a big stack. It does seem that the usual chain of events leads me to an all in position relatively quickly whether I have 5000 or 10000 chips. I guess if lose the all in then the rebuy often makes no difference whereas if I win, the double up is larger and often a player is eliminated, thus raising my equity even more.

Thanks again for your input.

Advise sounds good here

THe tournaments I have played in normally have unlimited rebuys untill the end of the first hour then one add on and you can only rebuy if your chip stack is less than your starting chips (1500).

So min bet(30) in the first round on any two cards then rebuys next round. this gives me 2970 chips and sets you up for the tournament. Unfortunately a lot of other players do the same but it does give you that edge over the others that wait to bust out before rebuying. The add on is a must if you are in any decent position in the tournament.

My 2c :P

Going against the trend here i guess. I usually do not re buy right off the get. This allows me to do the following:

1. See the speed of the table without double the buy in.
2. If I do get at one of those tables that chips are flying in I can easily build a stack to where it needs to be without the extra buy in.
3. If I do get bad beat it gives me one less buy in into the tourny which I can use.
4. Most of the time the people flinging the chips around are always near the double up total in chips because they lose their chips so many times any way so if you do win a hand with only one buy in, your not costing your self that many chips, cause you still have them covered.

I also follow a 5 time buy in (including add on) rule. This leaves me (depending on how the table is being played) 2- one buys and then if I feel I can still make a move(if beat again), possibly a double re buy then the add on. I will not put more than that into it. I mean no use having to make it to the final table to break even in one event.

If the table is being played mostly tight and others buy in for the double I may consider doing the double up then.

By doing this I find myself in pretty good chip position at the break and only in for one buy and the add on quite often.

Its just my opinion having only two or three buy ins(rather than doubling and get taken out a few times) saves more money in the long run than the chips lost by not double re buying from the start.

Just a very non scientific addendum here, the last two times I have played, I have been short stacked (2000-4000 chips) after the third blind level and have chosen not to take the add on.

Both times I have finished in a paid place. My own feeling here is that because I am short stacked i start to play a lot more aggressively with all in raises. Maybe my medium stacked opponents are more retiscent to call these moves.