55 all in ?

burswood casino torney $130 buyin
Blinds 4000/8000 average stack 70k
final table 8 players left 8th get paid
3rd position pushes all in for 50k
look down in 4th position at 55 and decide to gamble and push allin for 45k
is this a good play or should i let the 5s go and start pushing with any two when first to act to steal blinds or double up?
outcome 3rd position shows Aj and hits A on river

imo
this is a fold
if you were first to act
a shove would be 'ok' (possibly)
depending on reads etc.
but calling a shove means you are almost certainly 'flipping'
or could be way behind.

Basically you need a better hand to call with, than to shove with in that spot, here you're flipping, and don't have fold ev on your side, which give you the advantage you need when you do the shoving.
I would be happy to shove with 55 but call with them, it would be very much about my opponents habits he has to be pegged as very lose.

Definitely shoving first to act but folding given number of people left to act behind you when someone jams before. Think my calling range is 77 or 88+ here.

yea after thinking it through i guess it would have been better to let this one go and to shove first in with anything reasnoble because of fold equity , at the time though was thinking it would be a flip ( and thought a flip when u have the slight edge is ok in that spot if you want to go for no1 ) but ofcourse couldnt be shore that it would be a flip so folding a better option , thanks for your comments

really i have to add since i recently got quad 5's that u could have won the hand if an ace didnt hit the river, its all good. i remember joe cada winning a low pocket pair hand against a higher pocket pair hand in the final table of the wsop, and joe cada hit a set that day. Destiny, look or chance he won the tournament because that hand held up.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,571,895,072 games 1.226 secs 1,282,133,011 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.670% 57.06% 00.61% 896929992 9581082.00 { AA, QQ-55, A8s+, KJs+, ATo+, KJo+ }
Hand 1: 42.330% 41.72% 00.61% 655802916 9581082.00 { 55 }

That seems a pretty fair range seeing as live people tend to be nitty, especially when it comes to wagering all their chips on final tables.

Pretty sure I'm never folding there w 55.
Player in MP shoves w ~6bb's.. we've got 5.5bb's & holding 55. Even if I've only got 40%eq vs. his range I'm never folding here. (I'm guessing there's antes in play as well? .. even without antes it's a call all day long).

I think I am calling here and taking my chance to double up. If he has got A high kicker then I am ahead and on the final table of any tourney I am calling when I am ahead. If he has got higher pocket pair then so be it.

I think this is a hand to push with your BB remaining, but not a hand to pay an all in.

In the best of the situations its a flip, if not you are far way behind.

Im afraid it was gambling this time. I may have folded and waited to push another hand with my BB's remaining, something as Ax

I seem to get burned with small pairs here , if you were shoving first I see the reasoning but calling a shove you are either flipping or crushed it seems like a time to wait and act first .That being said this is hindsight and in the moment it's hard to let them go.

w/o antes, we're getting 1.26 to 1, we need ~44%eq from a cev perspective, with 55 vs. villain's range (even if it's as tight as say 33+,ATs+,KQs+,ATo+,KQo+) we'd have ~43% equity. Winning the pot & having 102k, when avg. stack is <10bb's, I believe makes it more than worth it to get it in.

OP, my feelings about the hand had you 'folded' here, later you could be saying to yourself, "Damn, I should've gotten it in with the 55 back then!"

You can all in if you're card is great and don't be act like a child..LOL

You could easily fold this hand here and wait for a better one. Its not terrible to have a average stack, but start looking to make some moves!

Difficult one - I probably fold and hope for something better to open shove in the very near future. The blinds will hit us soon though and live tournaments being what they are the blinds are probably about to go up soon too so that makes it a closer decision. But yeah, I probably fold on the basis that flipping is about the best we can hope for. 88/99+ or AQ+ I'd be calling though.

EXACTA MUNDO

Doesn't anybody here want to 'win' this tournament?

It looks like a call to me but I do think it's probably close given the players to act behind you and the fact that it's live where people's pushing ranges tend to be tighter.

Since your calling his push vs you pushing, I would have to fold the 55 here as there are still 4 players to act and at best, your a coin flipper here with only 2 outs vs his 6 if its a race.

Dont like this call at all...you are at a coinflip if you are lucky ...or totally dominated...if you are looking for a quick exit i would call ...otherwise easy hand to get away from.

And then again it depends at what stage of game your at..... I was lead to believe heads up its a decent chance....but theres an argument/debate for both choices,fold or call !

That early... it was the wrong move. If you had been last to act, then a push would have been in order.

Any raise and I wudda folded... 55 early = 1 BB only fer me.


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Buncha nits ITT.

I'm with PO, this is a pretty standard call. It might feel slightly gross, but you're already tasting felt as it is, you have blinds in 2 hands that will take nearly 1/3 of your stack if antes are in play, and then you're shoving nearly ATC with zero fold equity. With barely more than half the average stack, you have little fold equity here as it is now that the bubble has broken. If you win, you double up to greater than average stack with a significantly better chance to win the tourney.

A 6bb shoving range here is pretty wide too. You may not be a favorite in most situations but with >40% equity against his likely range, I'm taking the shot.

Any pocket pair in this situation is like gold -- they don't come around that often and chances are you won't see another one before you're blinded down. I'd rather push a moderate hand with some equity than to get dead cards for another orbit then push trash with zero fold equity.

i like the play with your stack and blinds approaching, just about any pocket pair seems worthy being in that spot

Harrington on Holdem Part 2...calls it first in vigourish if no one has yet to enter the pot shove with things like king j.....k8 suited stuff that your willing to gamble with....but with someone who has you covered shoves...you have to muck that you are a coinflip at best and you can still control your own destiny if you fold

It would be read dependent for me, but this would be a call for default, better to double up and attack other players stacks.

Also if the payout is typical the risk if worth the reward of moving up the pay ladder.

Also if the bubble has just broken then alot of players loosen up dramatically so range may be wider than earlier posters have said. plus with blinds and antes in there
and the fact i think i can take advantage of a deeper stack (IMHO)

Its a call for me

I'm calling here every time.

Limping in for 1bb w '55' at this stage would be the worst play possible.
The quote from HOH Vo.2 is kinda out of context for this hand scenario imo.

I'm kinda wondering if the responses on here are done w/o reading thru the posts ITT? If not, then I suppose it's a good example of why Tournaments are still +ev

I cant ever fold here noy sure how people are saying tough one or anything, seems very easy call. I don't like disagreeing with Pascal but I can't see with only 6 people left and 5blinds left how you can fold this in any position? I'm shoving at first spot or calling a shove. I'm with PO.

"I never have luck with mid pair out of position"

So what you're saying here is that you would be calling this hand if on the button when all-in and position means nothing alpf?

This 10times over. Wow I'd love to be at a final table with most of you lot if I can get you folding pairs with only 5 blinds left whilst I'm happy shoving ATC.

You are right - I recant. After re-reading it I can say without a doubt if I am sitting there in that situation there is no doubt I am shoving 100% of the time. Not that it's a comfortable play but it is correct.
On first reading I didn't realize the guy who initiated the shove was short stacked himself which widens his range considerbly. 55 looks much better than I originally thought.