What's the best way to play 2 2

Any thoughts on how and when it is the best time to play this hand? Most of the time, I just fold 2 2 rather than play it.

Suggestions anyone?

Open Limp with deuces, Fold, or 3-4x BB raise

Here's a similar thread , if you want to look at that one.

Fold it. Except button stealing blinds perhaps, or when small stack went all in, nobody else called, and you are a very big stack. I only play MTTs though.

i play them like any small pair. i most will only put about 5% of my stack in the pot pre flop. i hope to flop a set. i will rarely raise with them. but i will raise to steal the blinds later in a tourney. if i don't thik i can get the correct odds to set mine i usaully fold them as well as 66-33.

I call with any small pair from any position simply because they can go from weak to strong on the flop of a set. An interviening raise causes me to fold depending size of raise and chips I have. If I'm in a late position - any raise from the right shuts me down. It is hard for me to throw away any potential winning hand - regardless of the pair value.

I am much less likely to play 22 than I am 66, 77, or 88, because 22 loses to any other pair out there, so it's quite weak. Unless I have a big enough stack to be set mining.

the best way is fold unless you are big blind, in which case if you do not hit a set on the flop, fold

i slow play them..never raise just calls and checks..and hopefully you can catch another 2, and if you do..wait till the river to finally bet, and if you dont then fold

Try to limp from late position to see a flop. If no 2 check/fold as you probably are far behind. eary position they are non-starters.

heads up, 22 is a foldable hand for sure

I fold never pairs unless there is a raiser before me. So 2 2 i would call in any position

so what I am reading is to fold, fold, fold it. So lets see lets fold any pocket pair. There are circumstances to not folding any pocket pair and of course the obvious is when the set hits on the flop. Being scared to play pocket 22's is like being scared of playing A,K but hey more will race with A,K compared to pocket 22's. Yet odd that pocket 22's are ahead A,K in a race..

Pocket 22's can also be treated like pocket KK's when an ace comes on the flop as well. Would I play them? Not in early postion based that any raise it is hard to make a call with. Late postion is more likely for me to either limp or raise with.

It is incorrect to suggest that folding 22 is the same as folding any pocket pair. Let's suppose that the flop is 3 6 9 rainbow for example, anybody with a 3, a 6 or a 9 has us beaten if we have 22. If we had pocket 8s, for example, only a 9 or an overpair would beat us. 22 will only just beat ace high!

Why is everyone so blinded by the fact that 2 2 could, possibly, maybe make a set? If you pull that off and find a 3rd on the flop (8-1 odd's against it roughly), would you still be willing to back them against a pot sized bet? Pocket pairs lower than 8's have gotten me in trouble more times than I'd care to remember, set or no set. There are far better cards to get your cash behind, throw away low pairs unless your 6 handed or less, or your last to act with no bets in the pot.

yeah only a 9 beats you not to mention any 2 pair and A9,K9, someone looking for the straight especially one whom holds 10,7(granted it gives him less outs to hit but if it does come you are in trouble). Not to mention the limper whom limped with pocket 10's or JJ's. But no 22's on that flop beat more then just ace high, with that flop your options with 88's are just about equal with 22's. If you aren't afraid of that high 9 then by all means become a calling station with the pocket 88's when someone bets out. What we want at most whilst holding any pocket pair is the set on the rainbow flop.

Such as?? A,K or A,Q that needs help to win whilst the pocket pair needs no help. Somewhere there is a need for leveling out of being afraid to play small pocket pairs and over valuing A,K and A,Q...

The happy medium is the way to go, compared to constantly folding small pairs and constantly raising 2 cards just because it is the A,K and/or A,Q.

when you're playing AK or AQ, you're playing it because your opponent can have lower Ax's, such as AT or AJ, and when the flop comes A53r, you can win a fair bit of money from him.

when you're playing 22 and your opponent has those same Ax hands in his hand, you're much less likely to win even close to that amount of money from him (you'll need to flop a set and have him flop a pair).

so when you're playing 22 against the slew of hands your opponent can have, you're putting yourself in a less profitable situation than if you had a hand such as AQ in that spot.

the fact that 22 "doesn't need to improve" or "is ahead of AK in a race" means nothing because you aren't pitting those hands against each other, you're pitting those hands against your opponent's possible holdings

can have(hope to have, stop thinking superstitiously), on your suggestive flop means opponent can also have AX which that rag has paired whilst your A,K needs help, You are forgetting the cardinal rule that most people who play this game over value the ace, so your A,K or A,Q is in trouble. Just because you've now over valued the hand(hence re-read the part about having a happy medium). Less likely to win?? Long term even pocket 22's vs A,K you are a favorite to win(51% to be exact). Again a pocket pair is , will be, and always be ahead against 2 random cards that aren't a pocket pair that is higher then yours. If you think that playing 22's is less profitable then playing the over valued ace and/or king. Then you are crazy

The over valued ace and king need help no matter what, and they will always be behind any pocket pair, so long term it is much better to have a pocket pair compared to 2 random cards that aren't a pocket pair.

So it doesnt matter what my opponents have especially since that number 1 the ace or king they hold is over valued by them, 2 they ace and king need help in catching up to me, 3 it is easier to dump the pocket pair compared to the over valued ace and king.

Now you don't think the ace and king is over valued, then by all means watch some of the wsop or even hold-em tournies that are shown on t,v and see how many call all-ins pre flop while holding the ace or king.
People are predictable, once they see that ace(bells and whistles go off in thier head thinking they have the cat's meow, not to mention the king as well). With a pocket pair even the 22's that doesn't hardly happen, easy cards to get away from and long term can win the race more often against the a,k.

I would fold this, or check/call min raise if im BB or SB. This may be good if you get trips on the flop or a straight draw.. it depends of your stack imo.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

3,349,266,624 games 0.011 secs 304,478,784,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.972% 40.36% 03.61% 1351673676 121075614.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 56.028% 52.41% 03.61% 1755441720 121075614.00 { AQo }


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,054,764,800 games 0.005 secs 410,952,960,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.325% 56.93% 00.39% 1169792160 8099112.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 42.675% 42.28% 00.39% 868774416 8099112.00 { 22 }


you lose.


/thread

[x] optimistic

twizzy, almost every winning cash player with a large enough sample wins more on average with AK than they win with 22. this isn't debatable. IS. NOT. DEBATABLE. if you had HEM or PT3 or some other hand tracking device, you could make this and all sorts of other neat discoveries and maybe actually become decent at poker

get any winning cash player with hold 'em manager who has a large sample to post their top winning hands. AK will be near the top 5 most of the time. 22 will almost never be, and the only way it will be is if they've run super ridiculously abnormally above expectation at flopping sets with deuces

oh cool twizzybop is back

Saying pocket twos are a favorite over ace-king long term and at the same time saying not to call with eights on 9 high flop is just silly. Obviously you are going to get pushed off deuces when AK cbets a flop that misses you both. You'll be folding the best hand often, 50%+ is only relevant on preflop allins.

To play 22 you should have well more than set odds and a likelihood your opponent will get all in with one pair hands since your set won't always get action and when it does you'll also see combo draws and sometimes higher sets that have good or excellent equity against your hand.

i think im going to want to subscribe to the lolz

yes thats what ill do.

I play cash games exclusively so this applies to that:

I raise with 22 from pretty much anywhere. If I get re-raised and am still getting better than 8-1 implied odds I call the re-raise.

If I hit the set on the flop I c-bet, and then probably fold if re-raised.

If I don't hit and I'm in late position and it checks around to me I c-bet anyway, and you usually take it down right there. If re-raised, fold. If someone calls my c-bet they usually check to me on the turn so I can check back and see a free river card, again looking for the set and betting accordingly if I hit.

Auto folding a pair is a wasted opportunity.

Really Perhaps the word "crazy" should be changed to "sensible"

It has been mentioned by many noted poker pro's.
You should not play 22 because it can and usually does get counterfeited.

As for the best way to play 22, fold unless limped around to you in the blinds.

set mine or gtfo

Please ignore this advice - poker is never that simple.

Would I be willing to back a set of 2's against a pot sized bet?

Yes...

You limp in with it in any position, make a call with it in SB or BB to a raise, and fold it in early position if the blinds are 15% of your stack or more, unless you want to push all in with it and hope Ax calls you....

Have to see a flop with pairs, missing that opportunity to hit a set and get rewarded huge can be critical.

i usually fold this hand, unless i'm SB or BB then i check or call to see the flop and hope for sets....but if u play cash games or heads up u should fold

dont be over aggresive with them. i like to see a flop if i can but it depends on the action before me. if a player as been plaing real aggresive and showing mediocre hand i would try to get heads up with him and try to fore him out or try to out play him or her after the flop pending on what hits.