What does "play for the value" mean ?

Does it mean ?
1.Avoid coin-flips
2.Do small bluffes
3.Raise top with nuts after villians raise...


i am confused many people use the term but could not get the definition right.

When you feel you are likely ahead of your opponents range you bet.

It is a bet you HOPE is called. To get value for your hand.

It is a bet that you expect to make you money when it is made in that situation again and again over time.

You have the nut straight on the flop. You bet, hoping to be called. The board may pair or go 4 to a flush, but over the long haul you make money playing for value on this flop.

If your betting and you hear someone say "he valuebet" that pot, it means that they are giving enticing odds to their opponent, usually 1/4 to 1/5 of the pot. They probabally got a moster and want to get paid off. Also, if your betting and getting called down each street, and you got a monster, your betting your hand for value because instead of checking your betting and your opponent is calling so you are getting value for your hand.

By the way.

It is, in fact The EXACT OPPOSITE of a bluff.

+1

So, what is a bet for thin value?

In many cases, you will think it likely that you're ahead, but you're not sure. Let's say you have TPTK oop on a 3flush paired board. If you have a read on Villain that he has called your flop and turn bets w TP weaker kicker/worse pair as a big part of his range, and that a flush, trips, etc. is a smaller part of his range, you will want to bet the river. Then, depending on your read of villain, betsize, and stack sizes, (i.e. he's never raising a weaker hand than yours), you may have to fold to a raise. But not making that bet for thin value means you're not going to get full value for your hand - this is a significant beginner's value leak.

in low stakes such as 5 dolar heads up should i pratice more bluffing or more value betting ?

or does that always depend on my opponent ?

In general, value betting without any question. Bluffing is not really nec at low stakes - players make plenty of mistakes calling your good value bets, it's not nec to work on bluffing per se.

I definately agree vbets are far important in lower stakes. But just knowing why your betting is really important starting out. That is still a leak in my game. Sometimes I just bet to bet and really don't think about what i'm really trying to accomplish here. I think its very important to know i'm betting for value, to protect my hand, as a semi bluff or whatever and not just betting for the sake of betting.

Concur with cardplayer52.....have a good reason to bet in the first place. i.e. Am I protecting a hand? Do I want him to call or raise? Can I get him to fold?

As said before, value bets are bets that you want people to call.

Obviously if you hold the nuts, you want a call.

However value bets are not just done with the nuts, they are done any time you feel you are ahead of the range of hands he could hold, i.e. you beat him more times than he beats you.

This means that its fine to loose with a value bet so long as you are confident the range of hands you assign him is correct.

You need to value bet as often as is possible.

Often players don't value bet for fear that they are beat. If you base that decision on the number of hands in his range that beat you vs the number you beat that will call and it turns out he wins more often than you win, then its fine to check.

However if you are ahead of his calling range than you must bet because if he winning prior to the bet because you are building a bigger pot which you will win a higher percentage of the time. By not value betting when there is the opportunity to do so, you simply win a smaller pot a high percentage of the time.

Therefore in order to value bet, you must assign people calling ranges.

my problem is,

every person is different and it is hard to adapt to their ranges, i try to do that at HU SNG, but variance is so great i am really having worries value betting as they might reraise me to a point where it does not make sense for me to call.

by the way i lose most of my money calling their nuts.

In Heads up peoples ranges are going to be far more varied than at full ring or 6 max. People will raise with any two cards if they are on the button heads up whereas if they have 8 other sets of random cards to play against they will tighten up considerably because there is more chance that someone will have them beat

I think at low stakes, a lot of players fall into generic types. You can often tell from the HUD how a person plays with only a couple of hundred hands on them.

Someone who folds 50% of the time to c-bets is only continuing postflop with a decent hand. Someone who folds only 20% is basically continuing with most overcards (peeling flops).

Someone with a V$IP preflop of 10% is only playing pairs, premium suited cards and AJo+ KQo.

Somoeone with a V$IP of 30 % is playing all pairs, all broadway, all aces all suited connectors.

People who play this range tend to cling to draws and will not fold if they hit a piece of the flop,.

Someone witha a 10% range is far more likely to c-bet and then give up on the turn than someone with a looser range where they are more likely to turn into a calling station if they hit the flop.

So I dont really agree that opponents are so vastly different that you cant put some of this information to good use.

Stu, those VPIP values are more appropriate to FR, aren't they? I stopped replying in this thread because I don't play HU.

Stu's basic point that by following general betting patterns you should be able to categorize players applies to HU as well I'm sure, I just have no idea what the values look like for VPIP/PFR etc. As an example, my understanding is that VPIP's that look absolutely insane in FR and 6max are standard for HU (50%+).

Sorry. Yes those figures are FR. I didn't realise we were talking about HU. Even so, as you say, betting patterns in HU will give the same kind of information, however the actual numbers will differ from FR