What Do You Want From A Poker Coach? (Coaches Listen Up)

This comes out a recent bad experience (not horrible) with a "Wannabe" Poker Coach that I did not learn a thing from - except be careful who I give my money to. In reality all it was was a hand review (tournaments).
But it was not a bit useful to get comments like "this was a stupid play" without some sort of reasoning on why it was stupid and what would be correct AND why. I don't mind the straight forward, "You're being an idiot" approach, but you need to go beyond that. Extend yourself and work at it - I'm paying for it. The experience was pretty disappointing.

So anyway, I thought I'd start this thread of what "we" would want in a poker coach.

#1 - Assess my playing style. Tell me what works about and what doesn't work about it. Really get into it then transition to the discussion of whether it is going to work in the long haul. Capitalize on my strengths and expose my weakness. DO NOT immediately try to make me a clone of you - at least not before this step.

#2 - Identify what needs work (leaks?). Let me walk away with something I can use right away. I don't expect ALL of them wrapped up in a neat little package. I understand it's a long term thing - but it's tough to go away from any coaching session with nothing specific to work on. I'm a student - give me homework. Otherwise I feel like it's probably not worth coming back. It will probably help your retention of pupils when each time they get something to work on that makes them better - instead of just getting another form of a book being thrown at me that I have to sort through the information.

Gotta jump on a call - somebody feel free to jump in here.

Why do I have the feeling a thread is going to start from the other end - "What a Poker Coach Wants From His Students". It's only fair.

HOW TO TEACH A SKILL PDF
http://www.learningforlife.org/explo...99-720/y13.pdf

OH, BTW, the "offending" coach (as far as I know) has no relationship or membership w Cardschat. Found him somewhere else.

Should have used one of ours.

I have had a fantastic experience with my coach who does all of the things you were looking for. If I needed anything additional I would only have to let him know. He knows I am paying him and gives me what I ask for. He has done tournament hand reviews, sweat sessions, reviewed specific things with me, etc.

Did someone recommend your coach to you?

Actually I PMed a coach here (per instructions) and got no response. Might be because my stakes were beneath him? Don't answer that - I'd rather not have this thread hijacked. I'm a big boy, I can easily try again. Before I do I want to sort out these coach/student expectations.

Nobody recommended this coach I am referring to. I had another coach before that who was marvelous - but sadly he is pretty much exclusively a 6-Max Cash coach and I. for now, have committed to tournament play. I went to him to help with other basic issues. Maybe he spoiled me.

My intent for this thread is to be a help to the wannabe coaches. There are many more of them than bonafide coaches. Looking for help to get a list together that can be propagated so those looking have a checklist to work from and the potential coaches can also know some expectations of their students.

Let's see where this goes.

I haven't had a formal coach as of yet. I have spent some time on training sites and here on cardschat reading hand reviews and the info people give out freely. One thing that I really noticed, and liked, about training videos that people have put up is they talk through the theory of the hand. Like you said, they don't just say what they will/should do, they talk through the why and then the actual doing. By seeing their thinking process you can better understand poker. From a coach, I don't want him to tell me only the things that worked for him. I would like for him to teach me how to approach the problem and come to the correct decision. I know that is something that has to be done on your own but by guiding you in the right direction can make that process far easier.

I do like the idea of having them point out a couple small (or even huge) things that you should work on. Having a general idea of what you are doing wrong will make filling those holes easier. Instead of just saying "You should bet here" give me more broad topics to fix. For example, "you are calling to much from later position." Giving me something like this will make me think about my own game and realize the situation I need to work on.

If you're referring to bwmaao I tried pming him too but havn't had a reply as of yet, I'm sure he will in touch though.

As for your bad experience, I hope that guy didn't charge you to much and the advise he gave even a player like me could of said "stupid play" or so on. Who was this rouge?

I don't think this thread will get much love from wannabe coaches - there are far fewer of those around CC that you must be thinking.

XLNT Comments - just what I'm looking for

bwammo is traveling right now - so not sure how accessible he will be for a while.

I've paid for a coaching deal once, and unfortunately I didn't really learn all that much from it, especially for the cost (a % of my profits over 3 months). It just seemed like a very inefficient way to learn the game. I've always been a better book learner, and there are some great books out there with in depth hand analyses.

I've also had a free session and email exchange with two different coaches from my placing in the last two CC leagues. One was a live session where he had a prepared slideshow about SNG strategy, which was somewhat useful, though unfortunately a bit below my current level.

The other was a tournament summary analysis where the coach went through some HH's I had sent, picked out a few hands and offered better ways to play them. The benefit to this method is that it gets right to the points/areas you may have leaks, and offering alternative lines. A drawback is that there wasn't a whole lot of in depth explanation/reasons of why the hand should be played differently. There were also a few hands where I definitely disagreed with the coaches opinion.

Personally, if I were to get coached again I'd want an experienced player to have 1 on 1 discussion sessions with. I'd like to be able to discuss in depth certain hands, situations and areas of my game that I feel need improvement.

Since I'm in the Micros, there is no way I'm paying for a coach right now. I read the forums, watch videos and I have a buddy who plays mid stakes that I swap ideas with from time to time.

Having said that, the most important thing that I can take from any poker study is ways of thinking about situations. Remembering what a person played in a certain spot is useless if you don't understand the ideas behind the move. My favorite videos at Deuces Cracked are the ones Baluga Whale has done, especially the "Coaching Kristy" series. He explains his ideas clearly and has a specific thought process ( a series of questions) that he teaches. You can't find the answers if you are asking the wrong questions.

In his coaching videos doesn't give his student a cookie cutter answer he just keeps asking her "why did you do that?" "Did you consider this alternative" etc. He forces you to think through the problems instead of giving cookie cutter answers.

Just thought I'd jump in as a coach and as a student who has worked with a couple high-end coaches.

I'd encourage anyone considering a private coach to do 1 lesson before committing to more time. Many coaches offer a deal for 5 hours+, but just ask for the discounted rate for the first hour or two so you can see if his teaching style works for you. Some coaches will even give you a free first lesson if you are interested in a long-term relationship. Different people work together in different ways, sometimes a coach will really connect with a student, but then have a hard time getting through to someone else. That's usually no ones fault, but everyone learns a little differently and its important to know that the coach is someone you can learn from.

If a coach is giving one word answers, not answering questions, or not listening AND considering your thoughts and ideas, then he's either not a good fit or not a good coach, so don't be afraid to look elsewhere.

The other thing is that sometimes students new to private coaching think that an hour or two will change everything. Sometimes they can get lucky and there's an obvious mistake that the coach will spot right away, but more often, there are a bunch of little leaks that all affect one another, and when you change one thing, something else has to change too, so its a process that takes a little time, but can certainly be very rewarding.

Lastly, be sure to take lessons at intervals that are appropriate with how many hands you can play. If you are playing 50-60k hands a month, once every 2 weeks might be perfect. If you are playing 10-20k hands a month, once a month is probably more appropriate. You have to get practice in between lessons and get some experience with the changes and how they've changed your game.

Hope that helps guys.

-Hunter

^^^ +1

I know that I have a new PC being picked up Monday and will send PM to Bwammo shortly after. If he don't make it to Detroit area in his road trip, then I will wait until he gets settled in at home.

If he can teach half as good as he plays, I'm sure it will be money well spent. His style seems to work for me judging only from training videos. If not than that's cool too. Just try another until we get it right.