What to do with $20 br

What games should i start out playing and how to build my br at a steady pace? this is on Black Chip Poker a merge site

Well, you didn't say if you prefer cash games or tournaments. Either way, you're not rolled for much. Cash games, go for the lowest of the micros, probably .02/.04 and unless you just can't stand it, go for full-ring instead of 6-max which is more swingy and you definately don't have the BR to be handling swings right now.

For tournaments, certainly nothing over about $1 at most, probably less. Also I'd consider double-or-nothing (DoN) tournaments. Kind of boring, super-tight poker, but should be low varience way to build a BR. This will take some time and patience though.

Do they have the $2.20 10 player sng's. See how you do in them.

Yeah do what you want.You don't have enough for BRM so play a table of 10nl if you want or a big sng it doesn;t matter

Disagree with this. If you're serious you can build a decent BR from a very small amount. I've never started this low, but I did start with $50 on Stars before BF and in about a year's time had a BR of $1500ish. At that time I started by playing full-ring, cash, micro stakes.

More recently I just got back into poker after the forced time-out of BF. Again, I deposited just $50, on Merge this time. Through good BRM I'm up to about $220 in a month/ month and half's time. This time I played almost exclusively single-table SnG's, both regular format and DoN's.

So, it CAN be done if the OP is serious and wants to build his bankroll in a slow-but-steady manner.

$20 is not enough for BRM.Doesn't mean you can't play in some low games run good then start practicing good BRM.But i stand by what i said.

Matter of opinion, I guess. Right now I'm playing SnG's, so I'll focus on that. I'd say $20 BR is ok for $1 DoN tournaments. 5% of your BR per tournamrnt is a little outside the standard 2% that's recommended for tournaments, but DoN's are low-varience affairs, so this should be fine IMO.

Play the sng's for less than a dollar, and the one dollar DoNs. That's what I'm doing.

I would play the $1 dons and $2 bounties. The bounty tournaments are pretty easy to cash, just play your A game and don't focus to much on the bounties.

No it isn't. A winning player will go bust like 50% of the time playing with that amount. I'm a winning player and play $1 and $1.50 games hit a $150 downswing. I also hit a $230 downsing playing $2.50 and $3.50 BI games. OP probably isn't even a good player so will bust before he learns a ridic amount of time.

Serious lack of variance knowledge ITT.

FWIW I'd play a $20 BI tourney.

Serious lack of helpfulness ITT.

OP is trying to use responsible BRM, exactly the opposite of what many noobs do - and are chided for it by more "experienced" players here. And what are you telling him to do? Exactly what those with no knowledge of BRM always try to do - blow it all on one or two tournaments. Alright, if you MUST follow strict tournament BRM, play the 50c tournies, or the 25c ones, or even the .06c ones.

Point is OP is trying to be responsible with his money and should be encouraged in that rather than telling him to do exactly what everyone here scolds all the other noobs for - playing beyond their bankroll.

There ARE options out there for this size bankroll, wether you choose to believe it or not. I was trying to give him options in the spirit of his original post of trying to build his bankroll at a "steady rate". I'd still start with the cheapest DoN's and be prepared to drop to sub-$1 tournaments quickly if the first few DoN's go bad.

Every one that joins is Probably not a good player in your opinion. Lol I'm serious though. You always assume that whoever is new here asking for advice is a loser.
To gmuballer111 they do have fast 60 centers 10 players you can try. The blinds are 4 minutes. But I would do the $2 bounties just do not get caught up playing bad hands trying to get someones bounty that is where players really get screwed in these.Whatever you do good luck hope you quadruple it

Yes and he has been told that with $20 he will probably go bust barring a hot run. No point playing 50c SnG imo. I gave him the advice that I would do in his spot, I'd sit down with my roll and play with it all. I was there several times in my first month of poker and several times I played for 1/3 of my roll in a tourney or sat with my whole roll at a cash game. You have less chance of going bust that way than slowly losing it all over 10 games or so.

There aren't any worthwhile options for that size BR, if you're playing sub $1 SnG you may as well not bother playing or use playchips or whatever else shit players do. I was telling him his best options, which is what he wanted.

Anyone who is asking what to do with a $20 BR is obviously a newb so obv not a winner. Most people that join aren't good players though, you only need to look at a few of their strat posts to gather that much. When they post shit like in standard spots you can pretty much guarentee they aren't a good player. Occasionally you see a new player offering good strat advice but they are few and far between.

Ummmm.... seems like lack of varience understanding to me .

Actually he wanted his best option to "build his bankroll at a steady pace." DoN's and as cheaply as possible. Lowest varience format, easiest to learn proper play.

By-the-way, very nice implying that a new member must be a "shit player" simply because he has a small bankroll. That'll certainly help our forum's reputation.

I just think you ought to chill out on the calling all new players losers when you yourself have not yet won a WSOP bracelet. When that time comes that you win the bracelet feel free to become Phil Helmuth and call everyone a loser, donk, fish.

@gmuballer111: ^^^this is the best advice IMO.
If you want to practice proper BRM, then this is the route you should be taking, because if you can properly manage a $20 BR then you will definitely be able to manage a larger BR.

Just don't waste it on 2 or 3 games.

Do not play the 50c +10c sngs, they are soft, but the rake is quite high for a 50c game you would have to make a killing

It isn't lack of understanding, I understood full well and decided to play with my roll anyway. Also if OP Goes bust like 90% of time playing $1 BI then he may as well buy into a tourney where he can maybe cash %15 of the time and his BR is >$50 and he has less chance of going bust playing $1 SnG.

How else would you describe someone with a $20 roll asking how best to win?

I do still regard myself as a fish though I spew tons HU, I just happen to do it less often and with more logic than the general population. There is a difference between being a loser and being a fish. I don't call them losers because they are new players, I assume they are losers because of what they post.

building your roll at a steady pace is probably best, but not here in my opinion. Im with Blue in that you're better off taking a shot at a tourney or a cash game to make a somewhat decent profit than grinding away at 50c sngs..

Also assuming the roll is replaceable, take a shot.

I'd describe him as a new player looking for help and wanting to start down the right path instead of someone who assumes he has all the right answers as so many noobs do. Here's a thought.....civility....give it a try. Calling new members "shit players" and losers = fail.

I'll add that I never call OP a shit player, I said people that play <$1 games are pointless and may as well play play money chips or whatever else shit players do. I did give him the right answer. The advice you and several others gave is bad.

Yep, WAY less varience and chance of going broke with your suggestion of putting it all on one tournament than my suggestion of twenty DoN's. Actually my suggestion was for a few $1 DoN's and move down if you lose the first few. By the way, didn't you mention that YOU played $1 and $1.50 games? Hmmm.

Well there is.

OP nearly always goes broke playing with $20 BR. OP goes broke alot less if he gambles, wins and then uses BRM. There is seriosuly no point in moving down form a $1game, let alone playing a $1 DoN.

Yes I did use to play those BI, what's your point?

Alright, clearly you don't understand varience AT ALL. Chance of going broke with entire BR on one tournament where 10-15% of field get paid? Very, very high. Chance of going broke if playing in 20 tournaments where 50% of field get paid? Very, very much less. Seriously, anyone can learn to play DoN's in less than a day and should be able to manage double-digit ROI quite easily.

Just wondering why you'd waste your time playing a game you feel is pointless.

Lol you really don't get it at all. Then you have the gall to accuse me of not understnading variance.

I said games <$1 are pointless. (>$1)does not equal $1. Also playing hyper turbos 180 man fields is alot less pointless than a DoN $1.

Sorry, IMO its YOU who don't get it. If you want to add pre-conditions that he gambles and wins first then, yeah, sure he never loses. If he plays 5,000 DoNs first and wins every one of them he never loses either. If he plays the lottery and wins on his first attempt, he never loses either. In fact, in your scenario he's totally busted after just one tournament at least 90% of the time, probably more if he's inexperienced.

IRL he's going to gamble it all on one tourney, lose, and be done. Or, he's going to play 20, or more, lower-level, flatter-payout, structure events and have a much better chance of actually building his bankroll in a steady manner like he wanted to do originally.

I'll explain it in laymans terms.

Lets presume player X is a donk (OP is new so probably true). give player X $10000. He can either play 1000 $500 games (quitting if he busts at any point) or can enter the WSOP ME. Which option is +ev relative to the other one?

Lol ok I have a strategy for him. Hillbilly will hate me for it tho but for BRM it works if played correctly.

When i had only 20 bucks... I would play cash as a short stack at 4nl ( since this was the lowest game ) for 1.20$

Now, many players think SSers are BAD and either never mess with them bc they shove only good hands, or are willing to flip.

Now, if you can play a solid game buying in as a short stack you can slowly grow. It is not the best strategy, but it can work if done correctly.

I have turned 20 into 40 before doing this ( also playing CC free rolls ) then once you hit 40, start buying in either Full, or 2$ at 4nl

Mind you i do this at 6max games since there is more action and loose players.

This is not recommended advice for players who do not understand 6 max. So if you are new to it, sorry, disregard this post.

Are the other games of a structure where he only has to finish in the top 50% to cash? If yes, then take the $500 games. EV for ME is practically zero. EV for DoN's which are easy and ideal for a new player is much, much higher.

Remember, OP's goal was to "build a bankroll at a steady pace". Your way, chance of this is practically zero. If he was asking "hey, what's the best way to take a one-off, make-or-break, once-and-your-done chance?", then maybe your way is best.

Or maybe its best to forget poker all together and buy a lottery ticket. Chance to actually build a bankroll.... easy with DoN's and $20 and about 2-3 hours invested in studying the format should cover it.

Ooooohhhh.....you just made WVH's list . Actually, SS is a viable, though disliked, option if the OP has a sound grasp of SS strategy. Still think DoN's are easier to learn for a beginner though. Also low-varience, which he needs with that small of a bankroll. Still, as I've been saying all along, there are sensible options out there.

LOL thats why i mentioned it at the beginning hahah

I know the reasons why its bad, butif he REALLY wants to stick to BRM, then this is a method. It works SLOWLY and steadily. I know, i have done it, but not the best route. Thing is I have trouble commiting my self to a SNG and sometimes need to leave on short notice, thus cash gives me that and I can come and go as I please.

Yes and my method does build a BR. Take shot, if it works out you're now rolled to play all low limit games. You can build steadily with <1% risk of ruin.

I didn't say ev, I said relative ev. You should take the main event every time because relative to playing a few 1000 games as a newcomer it is +ev. OP is new so will consistently make -ev plays in DoN so will not build a BR and nearly always bust.

I actually used to be a cash player myself and, yes, I even dabbled with SS strategy at one time. Worked for me, too. Eventually got away from it and started buying in deep, which is even better if you're experienced.

I have time issues, too. That's why I only play single-table SnG. So far, they've been pretty profitable too.