What can I change?

Been playing a few hands at Full tilt and I looked over my stats and I feel kinda embarrassed. I been playin fixed limit micro stakes just to get a feel for holdem and after 2000 hands I feel like I'm not that good at the game.

I already know what I intend to do before I go to bed and that is read that book by doyle brunson - that section on limit holdem. After that I guess I will sit down and actually make a list of hands that I need to play and from what position.

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im no expert and its hard to tell with info given, but it looks like you only play hands once you have made them, not many preflop raises. i dunno but good luck and from what they tell me you can learn alot at this site

The first step towards progress is seeking improvement. I myself was a live limit player until I learned poker well enough to go no limit, and even then I didn't go straight to playing NL in the casinos/online, I learned NL at home games. With a PFR% of 4.14 it's obvious you only raise with premiums. This is a problem because anybody with a decent database on you is going to know you're only raising with premiums. Against a player such as myself, you're just putting a target on your back, because if you raise with AKs and whiff the flop, and I have a pair of nines when you c-bet the turn I'm going to start jacking the pot up...I'm not good at reading this charts, even though I know what all those numbers mean, but if you want to play limit poker, understand that the nuts is only getting paid off for 'x' number of big bets every time it comes out, and you're not able to price people to not draw out on you.Since you're playing micros anyway, I would reccomend you give NL a shot, a buy-in at .01/.02 is $2, and you're likely to enjoy the bet-sizing giving you a better understanding of pot odds, as in limit it's almost never correct to fold (pot odds wise) unless you're up a set or better with no draws... (e.g. you flop bottom pair with an inside straight draw, 6 people come into a 2-bet pot = 12 small bets in the pot, you have 2 cards to trips, 3 cards to two pair short of pairing the board = bad, and 4 cards to a straight, for 9 outs - or an 18% chance to improve. Original raiser bets and you're next to act you get 13:1 to chase on your 4:1 shot...)The converse is true, as well, when you have top pair top kicker in a big multiway pot you're not able to turn the heat up enough to make people fold. At the very least try a few $.10 tournaments or some micro cash games and give NL a shot. There's a lot more at play other than "call because my pot odds are good" all the way down to the river.Also, in limit poker especially, I'd suggest opening your range up, but this is coming from a LAG villain who shows up in $600+ pots with shit like 24o, 35o, 86o just as often as he shows up with KK...Perhaps a more specialized limit player could help you. I only play it when I'm drinking.

Yeah mdnmdn is right. Dude you're preflop aggression is .2. That is so low its not even funny. You should not be calling 20% of your hands and raising only 4%. The stats you posted are hard to read, so if you're serious about poker you should get PT3 or HEM.

Basically - raise more IN POSITION WITH GOOD HANDS and fold more out of position. I bet you're hitting "call" with things like j9 when you're UTG. Thats bad. You should be calling 4% of the time or less...the rest of the time you should be raising.

I'd change to no limit. At microstakes limit holdem', the best hand wins because nobody folds a half decent hand. There are too many suck outs. In no limit you can get people off marginal hands by raising even at the micro stakes. Often you can get at least some players to fold, increasing your odds of winning the pot with your premium hands. There are still a lot of suck outs, but if people are calling your raises to try to make a hand, you'll win in the long run.

whew...I guess I have a lot of fixing to do. I have to raise more, even though I'm somewhat still not used to doing it that often. I can't remember playing J9 under the gun though, unless it was suited and even then I don't remember ever doing that. I guess loosening up in the late positions and middle positions isn't worth it??

Also my bad on the stats I think it is just easier to read the player actions before the flop and after the flop. And those are from PT3...you just click cash game tab and look at details. After that PT3 seems so difficult to read and comprehend. Overall I guess I have to raise more. I do play NL at the home but it's frustrating too many cat and mouse games...but I guess that is due to lack of aggression.

oh and I have a lot more hands to play...I guess about 8000 more before I consider a switch.

Call fewer pre-flop raises. It takes a stronger hand to call than raise, usually, so if you don't feel comfortable raising, don't be calling.

I dunno about tournaments I guess I'm not too good at those either. I tried a tourney at full tilt and finished 472nd out of 3600 people. I'm not ashamed or nothing but still. I will start raising though, it is so necessary, sigh...it is really necessary in order to keep people from randomly hitting stuff.

Hey kysg,

Welcome to CC. A book I'd recommend starting out is Getting Started in Hold Em by Ed Miller. This is a good starter book giving info on FL, NL, STT, and MTT. There are multiple other books that are good to read as well, but I'd recommend that one.

I'd agree with everyone that definitely need to play more agressive as well. I've found that its often hard to be too agressive.

Just take it slow and try to improve each day. Understand it isn't going to happen overnight. Also recommend you read this strategy article from here at CC. I found this to be a good read.

One other point, don't feel you have to play NL or tournaments because that is what's most popular. If you enjoy FL the most, by all means play that. Each game has pros and cons. The key is finding the one you play the best and enjoy the most.

Good luck to you.

based on the stats you posted, you should be raising more preflop, and calling less. Also, be more aggressive on the flop. If you raise with AK and only get 1 caller, and the flop doesn't bring an ace or a king, you still should be betting, as you will get a fold often enough to show a profit. I don't think you need to change to another form of poker, as Fixed Limit can be very profitable and can often have less variance than No limit or tournaments. In many ways, fixed limit is often the easiest to learn and master, as most situations have clear +EV or -EV actions associated with them, and through learning and experience, your knowledge of these will turn you into a winner.

I'm pretty sure the edge a good player has in fixed limit is so low that you have to be extremely good at it to show a profit longterm (because of rake). I believe c9 was talking about this one time. Fixed just isn't worth it at low stakes because the rake hits you so hard.

your not aggressive enough....and you might want to be alittle more tight then 26% go for more of 21%

I'm picking this back up again, still no improvement.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong, can't get a good read on people, I don't exactly like using HEM HUD because I feel like its a crutch its great for reviewing hands but yea I feel like I can't really hack it at the micros. I think I position play is pretty crappy at best and maybe I am pushing too hard for gutbuster straitghts and OESD's...beside that and rather than cbetting all the way down and beat out by a 2 pairs there is not much I can think of...

A couple of links you might find useful:

Limit Game Monthly Discussion - May, LHE

http://www.cardschat.com/f53/giantbu...9/#post1483510

kysg,

Highly recommend Sly's links above. Also...

What kind of studying/learning/reading are you doing? Any books? CC articles?

Do you think its an issue with your knowledge of the game?...or do you think you are unable to apply correct concepts at the table?

Well I'm re-reading winning low limit hold em, by lee jones.
Going to re-read small stakes hold by ed miller.

Planning to read advanced holdem by ed miller/sklansky.

I read supersystem 1 section on low limit.

Planning to buy getting started in holdem.

I'm gonna look at my positions and see if I'm just playing out of position again, I've been loosening up by shoving suited connectors and offsuited connectors into my playbook but I may have to tighten up by just only playing 98s, T9s, JTs JTo, 78s.

I also need to look over a few hands. I had some off days where I was up and down in the bankroll. Now I'm just down...

fwiw, offsuited connectors suck imo unless you're on btn - Sklansky and Malmuth have a chapter in their book called "It's important to be suited". Of course, position has a huge impact, so...

gl!

Agree with Sly on the offsuit connectors. Those hands "appear" stronger than they really are. Sounds like you're doing the necessary reading/studying needed as those are good books to read. I would suggest maybe holding off on the advanced book until you're able to fully grasp and apply the concepts in the others. There's no substitute for experience though, so it may just be a matter of putting in hands at the table until the concepts become second nature. Don't get frustrated by the bad beats and suckouts. They are going to occur. Learn to deal with what you can control and let the rest take care of itself. Ed Miller makes a good point about this in his Getting Started on Hold Em book.

If you find hands that your struggle with decision wise, post them and let others review them. They may find mistakes you don't realize you're making. That is also a great way to learn.

yea I think I will use those on the button or in the cutoff. I dunno like I think suited is great but maybe I just undervalue it. Like it's hard to justify a hand like T9s or JTs if someone else is holding AJs, AKs, AQs, etc... Like I think it would just completely suck if you had T9s(d) and the flop came 7(d) 2(d) 4(c) I know that your 4-1 to finish the flush draw but its not the nuts...anyone could hold A5s, or KTs, or Q6s...maybe that is where the card counting combinations come in but the math is very confusing.

well after loosing 2 bucks today I feel I can't beat the micros at all.

Hand#2253014481000307 - New Castle 14481 -- $0.02/$0.04 FL Hold'em -- 2010/06/06 - 15:20:39
Seat 1: Libi***1 ($0.26 in chips)
Seat 2: Nort***2 ($0.73 in chips)
Seat 3: tripacesjr ($1.92 in chips)
Seat 4: elim***4 ($0.34 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: joey***5 ($9.08 in chips)
Seat 7: Desp***7 ($1.63 in chips)
Seat 8: hoho***8 ($0.79 in chips)
Seat 9: Beck***9 ($0.65 in chips)
joey***5: posts small blind $0.01
Desp***7: posts big blind $0.02
Dealt to tripacesjr [Jd,Ah]
hoho***8: folds
Beck***9: folds
Libi***1: calls $0.02
Nort***2: raises to $0.04
tripacesjr: raises to $0.06
elim***4: folds
joey***5: calls $0.05
Desp***7: calls $0.04
Libi***1: calls $0.04
Nort***2: raises to $0.08
tripacesjr: calls $0.02
joey***5: calls $0.02
Desp***7: calls $0.02
Libi***1: calls $0.02
*** FLOP *** [7h,4h,3c]
joey***5: bets $0.02
Desp***7: raises to $0.04
Libi***1: calls $0.04
Nort***2: raises to $0.06
tripacesjr: calls $0.06
joey***5: calls $0.04
Desp***7: calls $0.02
Libi***1: calls $0.02
*** TURN *** Q♣
joey***5: checks
Desp***7: bets $0.04
Libi***1: calls $0.04
Nort***2: raises to $0.08
tripacesjr: folds
joey***5: calls $0.08
Desp***7: raises to $0.12
Libi***1: is all in 0.0800
Nort***2: raises to $0.16
joey***5: calls $0.08
Desp***7: calls $0.04
*** RIVER *** [Td]
joey***5: checks
Desp***7: checks
Nort***2: bets $0.04
joey***5: folds
Desp***7: calls $0.04
***SHOW DOWN***
Nort***2: shows [4s 4c] (Three of a Kind, Fours )
Desp***7: mucks
Nort***2: wins $0.19 with Three of a Kind, Fours
***SHOW DOWN***
Libi***1: shows [3s 6d] (Pair of Threes )
Nort***2: wins $1.10 with Three of a Kind, Fours
Desp***7: mucks [ Jh, Qh ] (Pair)


also feel like I can't do crap with AK AQ, JJ, TT and AA, I seem to keep getting owned by two pairs, sets, and other weird crap...

just can't figure it out...I dunno maybe I have to just focus on just 1 table...

Actually Kyle, that theory is probably true against quality players and untrue against donks. If you are at a whole table of never-folds, (not unusual in free rolls and micro stakes) your chances of getting hit with a bad beat are fairly high. Raising with a weaker hand will yield an insta-call, or an all-in - then what?

im sure they have already been said but there are a couple things i noticed. first you are calling wayyyy to much preflop. your playing about the right amount of hands but you should be raising more than you are calling preflop. second you arent c-betting enough, only about 25%. try to bring this up to around 70ish. i dont know about full ring but i play LH 6-Max and that is what i strive for

My stat at 5/10 limit are 20/19/2.44 and my 3bet is 5.3 what I've discovered is to follow through if you raise, by the turn most opponents on a draw will fold.

The variance at limit is far less than no limit.I allow for $2 plus or minus should i go either way that is it for that session.

So far my sessions are winning.Bite off small chunks and be satisfied.

If the hand calls for action go hard.The hand does not fit there is know action.

He's playing 'LIMIT' HE... not NoLimit.

OP, why play micro Limit HE? Why not play NLHE? (or if Limit.. play higher buyin)

NL has some very intense BRM requirements so I'd rather just get used to playing LHE, and maybe PL omaha, and maybe the other horse games, NL is not really high on the list right now because you can blow your whole bankroll and variance is super high.

If you play the horse games you can do your cash just as quick as NL if you play at the higher limits.

My advice is to learn Stud Stud8 Omaha and Razz, they are technical games which require even more thought than HE.

FTP have some very good tutors and they also teach bankroll management.

fwiw, PLO br requirements and variance are generally higher than NLHE.

ive been told on this site by multiple people that variance is higher in limit, especially 6-max, because people like to all down with nothing more than a gutshot or high card. i have a hard time believing this because in NL one bad beat can take your whole stack whereas in limit one bad beat will only take 3 or 4 big bets. this is why i like to stick to limit and 6-max because there are less people to call down with nothing. i recommend this to people who are having any sort of trouble at NL because with a proper style it is very easy to profit at limit.

Really? So the fewer truly horrible players at the table the better off we are? Sounds like a great reason to play 6-max.

I find the statement contradictory and at the same time a paradox...yet, I have little to say.

I'm gonna post updated stats after I get home.

oh yea these are the games I plan to learn

Horse
Badugi
8game mix, I think this includes deuce to seven

I have a lot of reading to do.

That should pretty much give me every major poker game with the exception of chinese poker and badagi, crazy pineapple and double flop holdem which no one really plays.

had a question about connectors.

from my understanding

A 3 gap connector only makes 1 straight??
A 2 gap connector only makes 2 straights??
A 1 gap connector makes 3 straights
A connector makes 4 straights??

or do I have this out of context.

my only good example is AT, and JT

AT is 3 gap only makes 1 straight
AKQJT

JT is connector makes 4 straights

AKQJT
KQJT9
QJT98
JT987

I know people don't like to admit it out of some misplaced pride or something, but it really is a total pain in the butt to play at a table that's entirely made up of maniacs and calling stations.

Yeah that's why winrates at 2nl are 10 times what they are at 100nl.

You're assuming every table at 2nl is what I described, which isn't the case.

Table selection at 2nl is great because you can find those tables with one or two maniacs and siphon their cash off. But I doubt anyone wants to sit at a table that's made up entirely of them....I've even heard people here say they'll leave a table if they have just one manaic LAG-ish player sitting next to them.

I know our ego wants to keep us from ever saying things like this, because it's suggesting that somehow we can't "outplay" otherwise terrible players, but the truth is that too many shoving maniacs at a table can make things more complicated than its worth.