Trying to appreciate position

Hi all Im new here and Ill probably be posting up alot more problems after this , but theres been some nice advice that Ive been reading the past few weeks,

Anyway Im playing microstakes 2/5nl on pokerstars and breaking even, my bank has been going from 10$ to 25$ back to 10$ etc. Ive been playing very tight which I believe is my problem at the moment, I will raise alot with a good hand but it just seems players in these stakes arent as loose as people constantly make them out to be(for me anyway)
Anyway Ive done alot of reading about holdem theory on the internet and Ive just started harrington on holdem but the question I have is about position.
I guess I just dont see why its ever so important and would like if someone could shed light on it.
Dont get me wrong, I understand that if everyone is making the move before you you have more information on them about their hand, but for me, I cant grasp the concept of that info being enough to call low suited connecters or QJo etc when in late position as opposed to only sticking to top pairs etc in early position. When Im on the button I still find it hard to raise with a low pair(for example)

Im just wondering could people give me examples of hands where position was so vital? Is it because you can bully them if theyre checking?
Is it because you can fold if they raise?
Thanks in advance,

Fear of Loss Outweighs the Prospect of Gain


As any good salesperson will tell you, sales have deadlines for a reason: Consumer fear of loss. Loss of getting the special features for free, getting the special price, etc etc etc.

Granted, there's no prospect of gain if it's a product you don't want but sales aren't directed at those consumers anyway.

Much the same applies to the poker table, but even more strongly, No one sits down to play poker because they don't want to.

That brings me to position and cbetting. (Be advised, I don't always practice what I preach.)

What I hate most about NLHE poker is getting a good hand (even AA) in early position. I'm very, very careful playing from there simply because there are sooooo many flat-callers. Say you raise with AKs from UTG and are flat-called by the button. No matter what flops (unless it's AAK) you're going to have a certain amount of uncertainty to deal with (fear of loss by getting stacked, for example.) Let's just say the flop is AJ4, rainbow.
Your's ace is certainly strong, and you should bet. But, what if you're flat-called again or re-raised? If you shove here you're spewing chips. If you bet big on the turn, same story (possibly). Yes, I know, you may have been called by a weaker ace (happens all the time), but you may have been called by a set or 2 pair and now you're drawing thin. Yet, the pre-flop raise was absolutely correct with a hand as strong as AKs and so was the cbet. Just don't bet the farm on it.

Raising AKs in early position isn't the point of this blog, though. I really want to address the "mindset" the average poker player has. It's a way of thinking that's pretty much hard-wired into all of us and reinforced by our daily lives. We don't suddenly change into fearless warriors when we play poker...that hard-wiring is still there. It's why tournament commentators are always talking about the fearlessness of certain players. It's why we admire a nice bluff or squeezeplay...BECAUSE WE DON'T MAKE THOSE MOVES! We don't bet with air, even from position, or make even a small bet when a scare-card falls, because the fear of loss outweighs the prospect of gain.

Condition yourself to play differently. Experiment in supercheap micros. If you're first in, raise with ATC from the last 3 positions. If you raised pre-flop, bet the flop...regardless! If you have position on a pre-flop raiser and they don't cbet, YOU bet. If you have position on a pre-flop raiser and they bet less than 1/2 pot...raise them 3x their bet with ATC.

You'll get hammered, slaughtered, destroyed many times. Don't let it bother you. What you're doing is an experiment to see how MOST players react. I'm not suggesting this so you can win pennies at the micros. I'm suggesting it so you can learn how to read players (or confirm your reads), so you can see the power of position and the cbet.

If you're building a roll from scratch and can't even afford the PS dime tourneys, then try it in freerolls.

People want to try fancy plays, learn some magical trick that'll turn them into winners, learn how to effectively 3-bet and be Phil Ivey, do squeezeplays, push out limpers, etc. I'm telling you right now, until you learn to take advantage of the basic principle of "fear of loss outweighs the prospect of gain" and can excecute what I've described, all the fancy tricks in the world won't make you a winning player.

You have to learn to put chips on the line otherwise your cards will always dictate how you play.

An example of why position is useful:

You have K♥9♥ on the turn. The board is 9♥3♥J♠8♦. There is 20$ in the pot, and you & your opponent each have 60$ behind.

The river comes the A♥. If you're out of position, it becomes very difficult to get all in. You either have the following 3 options out of position to get all in:

1) Overbet $60, giving away the strength of your hand.
2) Bet $18-$20, and hope your opponent raises.
3) Check, hoping to raise if your opponent bets. But he won't bet every time.

Thus, its hard to get full value for your hand.

However, if you are in position, everytime your opponent bets, you can rightfully shove all in over his bet for a pot-sized raise. Thus its much easier to get full value for your hand.

Position allows you to control the size of the pot much better (if you want a big pot, you raise/bet, if you want a small pot, you check/call). Additionally, you get more information in that you get to see everyone act first before you do.

Not to mention you have extra time to see the second 9h

LOL

T_T I just got owned.

you both explain the point well.
+
I got to have a good laugh
=
WIN/WIN

Tons of advantages. Things like:

Pot control, barreling scare cards, extracting thinner value, representing a wider range thus making it harder for villain to know what cards help you. Just having more info coz villain has to act first can't be underestimated since this allow allows far more options like barreling, floating, more sophisticated bluffs, etc. You are just far more in control of the outcome of a hand when IP.

Golden Archives, IMO!!!!!!!!!!


Others have covered it well, but here's a link to the Strategy Guides if you haven't already checked them out. They are a great place to learn from some of our best. Also, as aforementioned, the Golden Archives!

Well C9 does play at Ultimatebet so having duplicates in each "deck" isn't really too far fetched.

You guys mean there's not 2 9♥ in every deck? Oh man, and I thought I had extra outs with JT on a KQx flop :X

hey,,thaks for opening my eyes, the whole principle of "Fear of Loss Outweighs the Prospect of Gain" is a new concept..had not thought of it like that..it gives me a new perspective on this..so i guess its true..
to be successfull @ poker ..you really need to have "the nutz" lol..
or some cahones to not fear losing..

THanks again

C9:

I've done the same thing myself when writing out a hand to explain something, but I just couldn't resist!

I only saw it after reading this...


Having the nuts doesn't happen too often...
Having backbone gives you an edge.
Brann's answer has it's points - works well in mid-stages of MTTs aswell.
Don't overdo it, though.

Thanks very much for the replies, especially Branns and c9h13no3
Some real eye opening stuff there, and even already Im starting to see the difference in my success since reading it. Ive taken on a much more aggressive stance in position. I guess i had read so many times that the microstakes players will call 'with anything' , but it seems they are always afraid to lose their chips.
Although I still havent hit my 5 of a kind(all 9s )

You must appriciate position. Be aggressive in positon. I win more pots on the dealer button than any other spot.