stupidity

Does anyone ever get the feeling that your fighting an upward battle with stuid poker players?I do. I'm sick of players who play shit hands like 7-2 or 2-4. I always seem to run into peopl who play hands like that and they suckout on you and they think they are good poker players. I hate Phil Hellmuth always complains about people like that, and then I have caught myself saying some of the same things that he complains about, like what I'm saying now. That's why we will never see a two-time WSOP winner ever again, because of these types of people.

I hear ya, it's always frustrating when your AA or KK gets beat by J 3 suited. however, I do know players who play opposite hands simply because most people play so "tight aggressive" and only play premium hands. They can be very easy to get away from and can also pay very high dividends when they hit. Unfortunately, if they put their money in the middle, they get to see more cards. That's just poker.

stupid players says it in a nut shell. Why do they even play if all they are doin is playing on luck ? Luck is only a small part of the game. I say Ban them , Ban them ALL !!!

So your complaining about people who play against your strong hands with hands like 7 2? Not really understanding but i guess your upset because they do bad beat you sometimes? Just know that these are the people that you make a lot of profit from in the long run and try to forget the hands where they hit a miracle river against your aces and move on.

I hate to tell you this gentlemen but beefcake is correct when it comes to loser's playing due to the odds, all you can do is try to bet 4x the bb and pray they fold.

SHERMSTICK

Not everyone makes rational decisions. Furthermore, rationality varies from one person to the next. Finally, most people think that they are better than they actually are. If everyone was rational, no one would play the lottery.

To each his own. I agree with WurlyQ, some people think the garbage they play is a good hand, while some say they over play their favorite hand even when they know its honestly a bad hand. Who knows why people do what they do.

Wait are you kidding me?

You are afraid to play your good hands against their garbage?

You do realize they are making a mistake calling you preflop and therefore you are winning in the long run by going into pots 2.5, 3-1 or better right?

Its absolutely frustrating to watch a big hand go down to someone that had no right being in a hand. But somehow you have to realize that if it wasnt for these bad players that get lucky once in a while... then poker would be a much much much much more difficult game.

Its like youre saying "MAN I WISH THIS GAME WAS HARDER!"

And that I dont understand.

I dont know why guys play bad hands against my good ones.

I dont really care.

I'm just glad that those kind of people are alive, and play poker.

And you should be too.

Sounds like the OP wants to play only against "smart" players who fold correctly and bet when they have the nuts. I hear there's lots of money in that.

Cant argue with the comments said here ive both played 7/2 and K/K...*unknowingly 7/2...* anyway i believe people play 7/2 or anyother bad hand because they feel that trip 7's will show up along with a pair of 2's or better... *agree's fully with Cobryn*

Looks like I have opened a can of worms with everyboby
Your coments have been a joy to read

What would happen to the game of poker if everyone played smart? Would it even be poker anymore?

Cobryn is right. No matter how lucky or dumb a player is, in the long run they can not overcome the laws of probability. Believe it or not, I've had some donk players argue with me on this point when they suck out and claim that their "poker sense" can overcome probability. Even though you will win against these players in the long run, you will go on TILT in the short run! The problem is keeping your emotions in check to keep you from plotting your revenge and making bad plays (or slapping the snot out of them!) while trying to take them down.

Now I dont recommend playing cards like 72 o very often, and it is really bad to fish to the river to get lucky, but there is nothing wrong with low cards...mainly suited connectors and gapped suited connectors. I love hearing people complain about getting crushed by a hand like 64 or 35 etc. I'm gonna do you all a favor and give you this little snip-it from Negreanu's book "POWER HOLD'EM STRATEGY" about suited connectors.

"The small suited connectors are absolutely ideal for the small ball approach. Since the goal with small ball is to make straights and flushes, against top pair hands. These hands give you straight potential and flush potential, plus two pair and trips.

Against particularly weak players,you could break them with 6-4 on a 4-4-10 flop if they have an overpair. The key to the success of small ball, and in these types of hands, is that your opponents won't be able to put you on a hand, and will often overplay an overpair when they are virtually drawing dead."

If you want more...buy it and read it yourself. Just remember that next time your crushed by a hand that YOU don't like (of course donks will do it too), whose the stupid one, the one who has more than just straight ABC Poker under his belt (Raise with big,Fold with small), or the one who just overplayed their hand to go broke...think about it.

If you play hands like this then your opponent will be able to put you on that range...To call with hands like that your VPIP would be easy >50 so you probably wont get paid off enough when they do hit.

I don't think playing trash hands all the time is profitable at all. Although if you are a nit or tag and you switch up your play a little and play the small suited connectors and such every once in a while, you will get paid off extremely when you hit.

That exactly the point...I just commented on the small suited connector cause it was kind of a part of the original post (which 2-4 can be considered...suited gapped that is), I'm not saying thats all you play, just dont call someone stupid for playing them...it is part of a strategy. I'm not typing all the hand classifications from the book.lol...I type waaay to slow for that.

In the long term you will take alot more money from them, than they will from you.

Some people like small hands and some don't. I personally do like to play small suited connectors or even small gapped connectors. But then you got to look at the bets and your postion. If someone raises something rediculous, then of course you need to fold. I would only play 7-2 if I was in the BB and I had the option to check. Some of my favorite suckout hands are 3-5, 6-4, 7-5. These hands can win you alot of money, but they can also kill your stack at the same time. The odds are sometimes in your favor, but you got to watchout for flushes and fullhouses that can be made from the flop. I like to play 3-5, and the flop comes A-2-4, and someone has pocket A's and is slow playing it pre-flop so you can limp call and suckout. Got too love it. Peace out I'm done!

Wait a minute ......
OP starts with being all pissed about people playing crappy cards and winning.
Then his last post is about playing crappy cards and doing to someone,
what he doesn't like done to him ...."favorite suckout hands"
Do as I say and not as I do and everything will be fine.

If you would really pay attention, I have said that there are right times to play those hands and there are times to not play those hands. You won't see me play those hands on high stakes and when I'm short stacked. I will play those hands when I'm in the BB and I can check. Or I will call small bets that are less 100 unless I have a big chip stack. If I hit low pair and someone bets out before me I will fold. If its suited there is a better chance of anyone playing those hands. Read in between the lines.

above.Think about what you are saying. Seriously, think about it.

You want to ban all of these 'stupid players'. Why? Because they rely on luck? Because they happen to get lucky sometimes and beat you-even though, mathematically, that is bound to happen? You want to get rid of the players that basically pad your bankroll and make you profit. That's just brilliant. Really brilliant.

So, I guess you'd rather player better, smarter, never-make-mistakes players and hardly ever make any profit. You might make some, but it will be significantly less than what you make off of bad players. But thats fine, because to you, the object of poker is not to make money.This. And everything else he said.

Smart players mix-up their strategy. Small suited or one gap connectors in late position or in the blinds are a good way to mix-up your game. Winning with them is not stupid. One the other hand, anyone who plays J 3 off-suit in early position and even calls a raise with rags like that deserves to be called "stupid." Unfortunately, I've seen people play rags like that and win.

I won't bore you with endless bad beat stories, but I once saw a guy raise with 8c 2d UTG, and then reraise a late position raiser. The original raiser had pocket J's and flopped a set of Jacks. The guy with the 8c 2d caught a 2 on the flop and bets. He was raised by the set of J's, but fearlessly reraised again. Long story short, the guy with 8c 2d ended up sucking out a flush on the river with his 8c, beating the set of J's. The guy with the set of J's was ripped! He says to the guy with the 8 2 "How does a man call, let alone raise and reraise with 8 2 offsuit?" The 8 2 guy says "I just felt like it was coming!" Yes, guys like this are STUPID and deserve to be verbally assaulted.

No, they dont.

1. Its their money.
2. He was betting into a pot drawing nearly dead, which is exactly what you want people to do against you.
3. Verbally assaulting them may make them rethink their play and not do this anymore.
4. More likely, this person may get upset by you attacking them and decide to take all of that money to a different table.
5. You have no right to abuse any person for playing poker the way they want to, especially when that way will make you a ton of money in the long run.

Why verbally assault when you can just take their money instead?

I hear ya man. We discussed this in a different thread, but this is one of the main reasons why Hellmuth shows up late on the first day of the main event. While there will clearly be donkeys later in the tournament, presumably a good amount of them will be defeated earlier. As for his rants, I actually find them amusing and kind of like when he does it. For one thing, he's generally right. Whether or not you think he has the right to express his feelings in that situation is a matter of opinion, but I may be one of the few people who really likes Phil Hellmuth.

You must be braindead if you don't want ppl calling your KK or AA with J3 off lol. Dude if they are willing to see a flop with that junk (after youve raised 4xbb of course) you win already lol. Youre making a +EV decision while they lose an ass ton of money over the long run.

Cobryn: I wasn't serious about the verbal assault. Obviously that would get you thrown out of the casino, make you look like an ass in front of others, and maybe also make them start playing more rationally. But, if you are the one that they suck out on you can always stick pins in dolls that bear their likeness!

Me only want play poker with peeple who smarter than me.

I say the stupid players are welcome. In the long run you should do fine. The only thing about stupid players is when they get lucky and bust you late in a tournament when you see them earlier double up with 67 against kings or something.

How do you know what I was about to say ?
And how do you do the mulitple quotations?

...and courtesy. I have even seen other players compliment bad play so as to encourage more of it. It's a smart move, you should try it sometime. You would be amazed at how, once in a while, you find folks in a cash game who will reload and reload jusst becuase other folk at the table are being nice to them...long live the Donks!

There are two cures. Either you move up buy-in levels so you play against better players. Or you'll have to adapt do your current level. I know the feeling as you describe it, and what I try to do is to not play too many hands on lower blind levels, and if I do, be prepared to fold if I suspect that my pre-flop monster (A-Ks, etc) is being beaten. Also, you could try bet a bit higher amount on each street to give your opponents worse odds for their draws. However, some players don't know about odds and play like it was no bet 5 card draw and still suck you out. Well, not much too do, but eventually most of them will go bust and either learn to play or quit. So my tip is to make your opponents pay a higher price for their draws.

I know what youre saying. Especially when you've spent countless hours in a tournament to get knocked out by this donk who hit a four outter with all of his, and your money in there.

Would you say the same thing about me ???, for playing 2 4 OS in the BB and hitting 2 pair and it was in a CC game .... And it was a big pot after the take down, knowing no one was playing that low of a hand.....
AA i have beat with 2 2 and hitting a runner...

Let's be honest here, what else can you ask for but all your money in with the best hand? Odds are you're going to win that situation way more then you lose it. It sucks, I agree, but I will take a domination preflop all in every time and just know that it's going to get cracked sometimes.