Strong hands in Omaha HL

Im pretty good at regular plo but im not 2 good in omaha H/L. Dont really know what a string starting hand is. A234???have no clue. help needed??

Some starting PLO8 starting hands that I play.

A2XX
A3XX
any connected hands like 6789, etc

I'll also play any 3 Broadway cards if they have a decent 4th....Like 9 10 Q A

Just don't get caught up in having the nut low too much. Most of the time, someone else will have the A2 you do and you'll get quartered. Also, be careful of overplaying hands like QQxx, KKxx, AAxx

Hands with high and low value preflop, try to avoid playing mid high pocket pairs 9-9 to QQ unless there are drawing cards with them, or you have a low value, A2, A3, even A4, or even 2-3 if the 2 and 3 are suited with the high pair.
A very key component to H/L is avoiding overbetting nut low hands without any high value in your hand, I have been forced to fold a nut low in the past, not pot committed and zilch for a high, considering the preflop play, most every player will raise A2. Most times I'll just flat call a nut low without a high.

Omaha-8 is all about scooping the pot. So play hands that can win the high and the low, or if the board has no possible low, then a good chance at the high.

The low+high value hands are obvious, hands like AA23 or A23K double suited, as they can make nut lows as well as a overpairs/straights/flushes. Even hands like A235ss have good value since they can make nut lows, wheels, flushes.

On boards with three cards 9 or higher, then the high cards hands (9TJQ+, TJKK) do pretty well, especially against whiffed low hands such as A24Q.

The only hands to really stay away from are the non-nut low draw hands (like 2478) and all middle card hands (6789, 4588, 2499) that really take PERFECT flops to have a chance at both sides of the pot. Remember that in a split pot game, having 6789 on a 54x board is a huge draw for the high, but you are drawing for half the pot most times. You may also still lose to a rivered flush or boat even if you turn your straight.

After playing Omaha Hi/Lo for awhile I agree with the cards aa/xx but I would stay away from hands like 6789 they are good for Omaha Hi but for Low its kinda of a dead hand. You most likely will not hit the low part and if you hit the straight someone might hit the higher one. Also another thing if you have a235 and the flop comes up 24k be careful, yes you have the nut low draw and a straight draw but more times then not the cards will go runner runner high cards and you will miss it more times then not, be careful not to go all in.

I respectfully disagree with those saying to stay away from mid level connecters. These hands have just as good a chance of flopping a straight than A234 etc. I understand the points about scooping the pot but lets say you have 6789 and you see a flop like 7 10 J rainbow. Then, you have the nut straight (granted another broadway card gets you in trouble) and the low chaser needs runner runner to potentially get any part of the low. Is this really any different than hitting a set with the same type of board where another broadway card counterfeits your set?

I have always read that hands with 9s in them are poison to the game because they can not help with your low and when they work with your hi hands a lot of times you will be beat by bigger hands.

In your example we flop a nut straight but the TJ part of this makes it a scary board. We are favorites for now but what if the board pairs? Or what if an A or K comes on the turn or river. Even a Q on the turn or river weakens your nuts. How sure are you that you have the best of it now? Because your 68 low is not likely to help if a low comes through the back door than you are back to winning half this pot or losing it all.

Also if you have A234 you have counterfeit protection when lows do hit the flop. With 6789 there is little (no?) protection and the only times we can expect to win is when no low is possible and in the dream flop scenerio that you described.

Also things change dramatically here depending on if we are talking about Limit or Pot limit play.

You don't even have re-draws with your nut straight, any 7,8,9,T,J,Q,K,A changes the nuts. Are you thrilled with this flop if it comes something like 369? No, any low card means you're playing for half, and while you're probably ahead now I don't see how you could be thrilled with this flop. Stay away from middle cards, I don't think there's even much debate about this.

A "safe" card also puts out a low draw. I would never play 6789.

I understand but what's the difference between a made broadway straight that has the board pair or flush out there. We take each street as it comes and play accordingly. I'm sure there are times where you've folded a set after the turn because there's a flush or straight on the board. My play of medium cards is no different. Your set is trying to avoid certain cards the same way my straight is. As far as the backdoor low, sure, its there. Have you ever chased a low? I have and more often than not, I get punished for doing so. In this scenario, we're the one doing the punishing. I know that most won't agree with me and that's okay but I will tell you WHY I do what I say.

Fair point; there aren't any redraws but people play sets like they're monsters too...and how many redraws do you really have 7? Also, consider this; I'll play this hand when there are a lot of raises in front of me because I'm assuming most are raising with broadway cards or large PP's so my medium cards should be more live than their cards since (theoretically) the higher cards are eaten up in other players hands. You're quick to point out that I could be playing for half the pot if a "safe card" comes but your A2xx low can get quartered just as easily if another player has A2xx. Like I mentioned above, let them chase the low, we'll hammer them for doing so. I think your attitude of NEVER playing this hand is wrong; just like I'm sure you think my position is wrong too.

7j10 rainbow is the only safe flop for this hand. The problem with connectors, say 6789, is if you don't flop the straight, your battling people banging away at the low, and if you flop the straight, your still battling people banging away at the low, and they could end up making a stonger high hand while they are banging away at their low. I'll take a flyer on 4 way connectors starting at 9 and up, and most times I want them suited, because I'm asking a lot going into a O8 hand with these cards. I appreciate what your saying, but I been stuck out in nowhere mans land to many times with hands like that.

Except we weren't talking about having a Broadway straight and having the board pair or have the flush or flush draws out there. We were talking about having a smaller straight. Weren't we?

In your example it is a dream flop for that hand. I just think you will lose more than its worth playing it.

My point was that straights get counterfieted in the game..whether its broadway or otherwise.

Oh I agree with that point 100%

How do you guys feel about a raise with 40 point starting hands in PLO8?

The way i see it this let's us see who is who low cards right away. The flop of course decided how far we go after. I am not for limping with Hi cards UTG becuae the idea is to get HU for the flop if we can.

I am talking hands where all cards are T+ and preferably T+ with a pair.

Hands like TQQK TKKJ

Also would like to know your thoughts on doing this at ring vs SnG and MTTs

Thoughts.

Lol sucker hands. There's a saying that you should never play a hand without an ace, and you should never play any hand if it contains a nine. While that may be a slight exaggeration, its not very far off.

If you want the basics: http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html

Oh, and 6789 is not even a favorite over a random hand. Want proof? Click here. For a game where preflop hand values supposedly run very close, you're a clear dog preflop when you play 6789 in the high/low split game.

It appears that my opinions in this thread are in the minority but I think it depends on how your table is reacting to raises. I've found that ring games (granted I've played more PLO than PLO8) have no respect once so ever for raises so you get almost no information. So, your decision becomes do you want to build a pot on the chance you hit or not because most are calling anyway. I don't have enough PLO8 MTT/SNG experience to give you an informed opinion in that environment.

If you have 6789, you want to see a 458, even knowing that you will split the pot. A 7TJ flop is your worst case scenario, and a sucker hand. Any 8, 9, Q, K or ace, (that is 18 outs twice!!) and you no longer have the nuts. So, it is not just the broadway card that counterfeits you, you forgot about the 3 8s & 3 9s. And that is even without the possibility of the board pairing up. And that likelihood is further increased by the fact that you are not holding those cards either.

So by your own example, you made an argument for why low connectors are not good. In order for you to make your nut straight, there will be a low. Four cards to a broadway is a completely different animal. And 4 cards to a wheel are the same animal as 4 to a broadway, just a different color. They each have the potential to scoop. One more thing, broadway cards that are suited (especially ace of course) has added potential for a flush - middle card, if suited, usually do not. You certainly could not raise them.

You decision to build the pot is based on nut outs. Hard to explain. It can be nut outs to either hi or low. Best case scenario is when you are freerolling to scoop. For example...I have Ac2c4dKs

Flop 3c8cKd. I did not flop the nuts. But I have nut flush and nut low draws. I am reraising this all day long. I have 16 outs to see a 5678, you subtract the 4 clubs in the 5678, and that's still another 5 clubs for the nut flush.

A example of a freerolling situation: You have Ac2dQsQh. You flop a Q85 rainbow. You already hit your set. You raise because not only are you ahead, but you are freerolling to a boat, a low, or a scoop. Board pairs up, you win - low card hits you win. Rainbow? More good news.

starting hand in omaha8 are just like other forms of poker. it depends on the persons skill level and how many opponents ur playing.

if ur just starting out like the original poster and ur playing a full table like beginners should be playing, u should go with the advice with one of the posters that u have to stick with playing an ace in ur hand. if ur playing full table u should be playing a hand with a2 with something for the hi hand with it. folding a3 a4 is really a good idea especially for a beginner because it teaches discipline. u really want hands that give u da nutz or that lead to the nutz so u really need an ace in it. things like king flushes or 2nd nuts in omaha8 are deadly to ur bankroll. its cheaper to give blinds up and fold than to play 2nd nutz in omaha 8.

as for the 6789 example, i wouldnt suggest it to a beginner because like some1 else said it could get counterfeited later in the hand easily and its not good for a beginner to start playing those. id tell a beginner again to focus on nut draws and nut hands things that wouldnt make u come in 2nd place ie losing.

that poster of the 6789 hand understands the risk of this hand and makes valid points. but this is really a omaha hand cuz all the cards work together but they dont draw to any nutz and a lo is out of the question. playing mid cards like that hand is really a golden no no in omaha8 but if u have the experience . . . but i again wouldnt suggest it to a beginner because in creates bad practices.

but something like this hand is really a more short handed hand than full table and u can easily be ditched if the board isnt good to u on the flop.
just again i wouldnt suggest it to a beginner.

^^This all day long. Dive knows what she is talking about and I respect her opinion and advice a lot.

There is no respect for raises at all because they see it as pennies. If we get 4 callers on a pit size bet form UTG you are right we have no information at all. We are back to playing our cards only and not the playing based on what our opponets may or may not have. I think a lot of times we are going to be able to exploit this in PLO8 but will suffer for it in LO8.

Thoughts?

Interesting. In limit, we may be back to playing our cards, but if we play them well, it is we who are doing the exploiting of those less skilled. I know that's not what you meant. In PL, we raise pot with a great hand, but have to play our cards after the flop, and a lot of that will depend on position. That's why the variance is so wild with PL, and there is virtually no such thing as NLO, for that very reason. There are so many more things that can happen than with NLHE.

But I'm thinking that at PLO at the micro limits, there is that much more money to be made, because more will call ill-advised hands preflop for pennies, or really dimes. And when you hit your great starting hand, others that did not will not call another pot bet. To me, PL & Limit are both double edged swords, each requiring a different skillset or should I say more accurately, aptitude (like bluffing, position, etc).

You have redraws? I was under the impression you had the nuts without redraws. I can't think of any cards that can come that you would love, though I would certainly like any low card that came because my nuts are safe. I'm pretty sure you're around even with a hand like AKQJ here, it's just difficult to play postflop since the nuts changes so often in PLO and the flop we're describing is like the perfect flop. Even if you catch a flop like 345 you're playing for half. It could cost you if it's two toned as well. I don't like chasing low, I usually only naked low if it's worth getting half the pot. I just think you're asking for trouble with this hand. I think kmixer and Divebitch drove this point home. Take it or leave it.

SO im guessing some of the best hands in HL are small connectorz with some way to win the high suited connectors for exmple.

Play hands that can scoop. Its not complicated. That's the whole point of this game.

A♥2♣K♥J♠ is a great hand because it makes strong high hands and strong low hands.

K♠K♥Q♠J♦ is good because it makes strong high hands and when it hits there are no low cards on the board, so you are likely to scoop.

K♣5♥4♣2♦ is okay, and it can still scoop some pots, especially against a small number of players. Sometimes a bad low & two pair will be enough to scoop, or you'll flop a wheel wrap, ect.

8♣7♠6♣5♥ is a bad hand. If you hit a good high hand, there's a low hand out or you don't have the nuts. If you make a low hand, its almost never good. The number of scenarios where a hand like this can win both sides of the pot are very few.

A large number of your scoops are going to come from free rollling guys with high hands that won't fold postflop and by getting players to draw to a low (or better yet a quarter) that doesn't hit when you have a strong hi hand.

Just had this hand a few minutes ago, 279 player MTT and i had to laugh cause we were just talking about this in this thread.
Here is an instance where I played this hand, cause we're 7 handed, nobody called in front of me and I like my position against small and big blind hands.
Button did limp in. On the flop, BB made a 1 blind bet, i called and button called, Nobody bet the turn, so I'm confident nobody is on a strong high hand and they have low drawing hands, if I make my hand on the river I'll get paid off. River hit me, I bet pot and both players called with A2. Just started the final table 4/9, let you know how I did.

Attached Images

hand6789.jpg (270.3 KB, 20 views)

Yuck, ran into a cooler hand aces full lost to higher aces full, I made a no no, first I did the assume the BB doesn't also have an ace in his hand, which he did, then bet the river out of position witout the nuts and no low to fall back on, and got re-raised, called. Fizzled to a 7th place finish ! Not like me to be reckless like that in PLO8.

Got this from an Omaha Blog

http://omahahilostrategy.blogspot.com/

Middle Connected Hands - Hands like 6789 and 5679 are not playable. The best possible hand that you are usually drawing to is the high end of a straight that gives someone a low. Then again, your other option is to draw at the bottom end of a straight. Either way, you lose. When your best possibilities with a hand both aren't that great, you should probably just fold it before the flop.

This is listed as a cash trap hand.

Any Big Pair - AA, KK, QQ or JJ. Doesn't matter which or if anything is suited or coordinated, I generally see the flop with these. I will often times throw the hand away if I don't hit a set on the flop.

I disagree with this, It's not that I won't play them, but I need the other 2 cards to have some sort of value to go with them, like a suited ace or a 2-3 suited with the kings. Cause like he says, if you don't hit a set on the flop, they're impossible to play and you have to toss them.

Double Suited Junk - People look down at double suited hands like 6sJs9c2c and limp into the pot all the time. Your probability of scooping the pot with a hand like this is very low so you might as well not even try.

I get a kick out of this one, you know how many people preflop raise any double suited cards, its hysterical.

With all of those hands that I play, I am probably considered on the loose end of many Omaha High-Low poker players. Scotty Nyugen is known to have said that no hand is playable in Omaha-8 without an ace.

He's right, he is on a loose range of starting hands, but to each his own.

I enjoyed that Km, thanks for sharing it

Yeah I wont see a flop with these pairs unless I have great position and two other cards that will play nice with them. I am okay with playing these pairs with two prime cards and with two Broadway cards from MP and as long as it is not raised in front of me.