starting hands

hello, i was just wondering why its so important to have high cards as a startin hand when after the flop is when the cards dealt really matter. and why do people get so upset and be mean when you win with low cards?

Well as a general rule you want to start with good hands. Generally speaking your 4h 5h in middle position is most likely a huge underdog to someone who is 8/8/45 and raises 4xBB UTG. You need a better hand to call a raise with than you need to raise with.

If you call that raise with your 4h 5h and the flop comes Ac 4d 5s, the original raiser bets half the pot you either bet or flat call and the turn is a 7h, he bets 2/3rds the pot you call, and the river is the 7c...

Your Nitty Opponent had either AK AQ AA KK QQ
Now his set turned into a full house or his two pair is much larger than yours thanks to the river.

More often than not you need to be playing the player, position, cards, and be figuring out your probability and odds.

It's pretty much a horrible play to call a PF raise with some ugly cards that shouldn't be in there in the first place, (ie: someone makes a pot sized raise PF and you call with 2h 5c) You are going to lose money more than win with hands like this. From you asking this question in general I can already tell you probably play 40-70% of the hands dealt to you. Which is way too many.

There are three advantages you can have at the table:

1. Strong hands
2. Position
3. Skill

Strong hands have a built in advantage in that they are more likely to continue to be strong on the flop/after the flop than weak hands. Big pocket pairs are likely to flop overpairs and top set, AKs is likely to flop A high, top pair top kicker, and nut straight and flush draws, JTs is likely to flop strong hands, etc. 83o is likely to flop bottom or middle pair w no kicker or complete air.

Position allows you the advantage to see what everyone else does before you have to act.

If you have a skill advantage, you better understand how to exploit situations pre and postflop to your best advantage.

Unless you have a skill advantage on the other players, you're better off relying on strong hands and position.

People trash talk someone who's playing poorly and hits the board hard when they fail to understand that others' poor play is profitable for them in the long run.

As noted above, Strong hands, Position, and Skill are important. But, what are "Strong Hands?" Generally, two hole cards that have high card strength (can make top pair with either card), suitedness (can make a flush), or connectedness (can make a straight). To be playable, your hole cards should have at least two of these three characteristics to give you a reasonable chance of winning. Anything less are usually defined as "rags" and only worthy of the muck...at least by Nits like me!

If you can limp in with suited or connected cards they may have value after the flop. Guy slow played me last night when I was on BB with 79. The guy had AA and I hit a straight on the flop. However that is the exception.

Some people would go as far to say "Aces and Faces"

It's pretty simple....

Long term big pairs and face cards have more value at showdown...which is essentially the basis for short-stacking, because when you shove you are guaranteed a showdown.

Some of the confusion no doubt comes from tv. A lot of people see the big names on tv playing wide variety of hands and they think this is the way expert play is meant to be.
They fail to realize that much of the action on tv is edited for content and they are only showing you "interesting" hands.

The majority of regular poker with regular people is played as described above. Strong cards, strong position, strong skills, not necessarily in that order.

Finally, as others have mentioned you should not be berated for deciding to play cards that are less valuable but you should take it upon yourself to read up on the fundamentals. There is a ton of basic info on the net that will explain why stronger cards are better than weaker.

example

tgreen;dr

RF

People who do this are nearly always bad players, so when you're better than they are, just plug your ears and wait for a chance to stack 'em.

RF

Awesome, someone was kind enough to provide me with an example.

So, there was a player at one of my tables calling people donks, idiots, and just in general criticizing their play in an assinine way. His stats over about 70 hands were 94/36/50, meaning he plays any 2 cards in any position and raises 36% of them, which should be something like all pairs and any hand that has either an ace or face card. The guy actually managed to double up through me with a pair of really low cards on the board. I had TPTK (top pair, top kicker) which against someone playing ANYTHING is pretty good. Non horribly awful players would have been very unlikely to have that 3rd low card for a three of a kind, but he did. I would bet money he credits his skillful play to beating me that hand, and bad luck to his overall losing streak.

Plays like that make it FEEL like playing a really wide range is effective. You will occasionally take a lot of chips off someone like me, but a lot more often you lose to someone like me when garbage hands don't connect to the board at all, or do so weakly. Like we both get a pair, but yours is 55 and mine's KK.

But just my opinion doesn't matter. You can look people up. This guy is running -50BB/hundred hands. In other words, he consistently sits down and loses a buy in every 90 minutes or so. He would have to be 5-10 times better to be merely bad.

So, two lessons in one. Don't play junk, and don't lose sleep over people criticizing you at the table.

RF

i want to see how u play 6 9 when u have 10 blinds in a tournament, or when someone raises 4 times BB at a 6 or 10 players cash table. After u see your 2 cards (58, 39 or other other randomply cr.ap cards) your chances of winning are somewhere low. U have a very high chance to miss the flop completely. U can bluff ones or twice but someone will challenge u the third time and u'll lose a lot in a hand. Even after the flop, if u hit a pair, your chances are low cose it will be a low pair. chances to hit 2 pairs or a streight or a flush are low.
I sometime limp in with small suited connectors but only from the button or one of the blinds and only if nobody raised. If u pay 3.5 BB with c.rap , and u pay 10 hands to see a flop that means 35 BB . I do not talk about playing after the flop all the time when u have nothing cose that is nuts and a waste of time to explain.

pnut, if u, like me, are a relative newbie to poker/online poker, than a lot of what you read in forums like this one will be hard to understand at first, and sometimes hard to incorporate in your game. As an example you are UTG in a tournament, 20/40 SB/BB and you PF KQ os, and think "man, I aint folding with this, no matter what, my possibilities are just too great" - I did this - then you could really profit from the good advice offered here. It has all been pretty much said by the other posters as to why strong starting hands are better, and if position is not yet a major factor in your play, read up on it, it is KEY to the player who lacks LOTS of experience - ok, key to any player, but esspecially helpful when a newbie begins to understand and use position - and dont make the mistake - again, as I did - of thinking 1000 hands and a few wins makes you good/experienced. Post hands in HA and pay attention to the responses. I have changed my approach dramatically and although I am not really winning that much more yet - my skill and experience are lacking, my fault - I am losing a WHOLE LOT LESS, in terms of money as well as cutting my losses, knowing better when to fold instead of throwing good money after bad. I lost a lot of my deposit really fast at first. I made some good wins too, but probably more just lucky plays as compared to good plays. Now I am more or less staying even, because I take the info I get here and other places, re-read it, re-read books/internet strategy/any other credible info, and analyzing what I have done, 1/2 my time spent on poker is not playing but learning, and evaluating what I and my opponents have done in finished hands, and a whole lot of other things. The more I earn, the more I realize how little I really do know. There are lots of knowledgeable and helpful people here, and here it is really true, Ask and ye shall receive!!
As far as those negative commentary's go, make notes of what people do in play as well as what they say - you meet many of them again - I have found a certain connection between playing style and maturity/behavior. Good players accept a bad beat, or even a donk play with class, the occasional "OMG WTF" but tend not to berate players. Immaturity can lead to stack increase for you, just watch out for the off chance someone is leading you on, but for the most part, someone who constantly is beating up on other players, can be played himself....
Good luck.

i think players get upset cause sometimes they wait long time for a great hand just to get bad beat by a player that limp in 1st postion on table then gets huge raise only to call with 79 suited and they call only for the player that has made the huge raise to take a horrible bad beat , eventually when you have lost your AA 100 times to a play that calls with a hand that most players could concider junk you will not want that to happen you would like to at lest be beat by a legit hand .think its a respect thing more then anything when your playing a good game of poker only to get called by rags or something and lose ovs sucks lol but your are right they should expect anything from lots of new players online and not over play there AK cause its suited and the flop is 659 lol and there shoving and get beat .