Starting hand strength when considering a pre-flop raise

Hey guys,

I am just reviewing my pre-flop strategy and trying to make a few positive tweaks.

I am looking for some opinions as the the strength of some starting hands in relation to others when we are pre-flop and considering raising it up (not facing any raise ahead).

Ok well here is what I have so far, in decending order of strength and therefore value:

AA>KK>QQ>AKs>JJ>TT>AK>AQs>AJs>KQs>ATs>KJs>QJs>KTs> QTs>JTs>J9s>T9s

Before someone says it... I know it "depends" and I am thinking in terms of all things being equal. The hands towards the left could be raised from earlier positions at the table and theose towards the right being weaker holdings

OK...

I am fairly certain that AQ>KQ>AJ>AT>KJ
I'm also pretty sure A9s>A8s>A5s.

I am fairly happy with the order of my first 18 hands but I would like help/opinions as to where the next row of 8 fit in. I guess T9s>KJ so the latter will probably be on the far right?

Hoping this will facilitate division of starting hands in to more profitable EP, MP and LP groups!

For the past year I have arranged my pre-flop holdings in line with mathematical odds of winning if every player goes all-in and stays 'til the river. This is clearly flawed logic as playability of the hand is equally important.

Just to give you an idea of how far off i was (am) I was raising UTG with QTs and mucking ATo and saving it for blind stealing or isolating a single limper when OTB!

Oh and you won't see 99-22 in there as I have a seperate strategy for playing these hands.

Thanks in advance as always,

Frank.

The problem is that you have kind of a rock-scissors-paper situation quite often.
And that the value of a hand changes depending on how deep stacked you are.
67s for instance is worth more if you are 200+bb's deep.

watch the full tilt lesons they help alot and rewatch

Hmm, first off, it depends on if you are playing 6 max or 8-10 seat tables. UTG means different things depending on the table size.

Also, TT plays differently than AKo. I'll open raise both no matter whether the table is 6 or 9, but after someone else raises I'm more likely to re-raise with AK than with TT.

Somewhere on the internet you can find starting hand groupings, by Skansky or someone, created in the days when Limit poker was king, but I think on FlopTurnRiver or somewhere there is also a revision for No Limit. To me, that revised one is as good as a starting hands description/way of thinking about them as there is for a starting basis. He breaks hands down into 5 or 6 groupings which makes sense to me.

LOL sorry guys, I play FR if that helps...

Yes I am aware of this. Just not the best at communicating an idea.

I don't like to think in terms of EP, MP and LP though I use these when posting at CC as its what seems to make sense to most.

I prefer to think in terms of positions from the button. Makes it simple to adjust my game on the fly as people leave the full table and it fluctuates from 9-8-7-6 players and back up to 9 again.

You really can't take a static, hierarchical approach like this. As others point out, and as you yourself acknowledge, it does depend on the situation. When talking pocket pairs the preflop strength of each is strictly linear and easy to understand, but with non-paired hands it is not. You have to think about suitedness and connectedness in addition to face value.

For instance, 98s is a great implied odds hand when stacks are deep and flops are cheap. Hit the flop hard and you'll stack AA/KK almost every time.

For instance, when you say A9s>A8s>A5s, it isn't necessarily that simple. Lower kicker aside, A5s is connected and is a better implied odds hand, so it can make a straight as well as the nut flush. If you play A9 or A8 then you're depending on your weak kicker to hold if an ace falls, but in reality you are often dominated, even in an unraised pot since many people won't raise AT or AJ.

I'd suggest you read up on some current poker books and look into the hand charts that NineLions suggests. Also look at downloading PokerStove (it's free) and trying to compare hands and ranges against each other to get a better idea of their comparative equity.