Should you shove on first hand of a HU tourney.

As I have said in other threads I am new to playing HU.
I am not the type of player that goes all in early in a tourney, but this hand has made me question that.
How do ppl call a 3 bet with rubbish so early in a tourney, I see it happening alot lately, do you think a shove would have made a difference in this situation.

PokerStars Game #18646068909: Tournament #94798368, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Match Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2008/07/07 - 10:21:54 (ET)
Table '94798368 1' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Me zorba (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: Aries2168 (1500 in chips)
Me zorba: posts small blind 10
Aries2168: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Me zorba [Qs Qd]
Me zorba: raises 80 to 100
Aries2168: raises 80 to 180
Me zorba: raises 200 to 380
Aries2168: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [4h 8c 7h]
Aries2168: bets 1120 and is all-in
Me zorba: calls 1120 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [4h 8c 7h] J♥
*** RIVER *** [4h 8c 7h Jh] 6♠
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Aries2168: shows [5s 8d] (a straight, Four to Eight)
Me zorba: shows [Qs Qd] (a pair of Queens)
Aries2168 collected 3000 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3000 | Rake 0
Board [4h 8c 7h Jh 6s]
Seat 1: Me zorba (button) (small blind) showed [Qs Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: Aries2168 (big blind) showed [5s 8d] and won (3000) with a straight, Four to Eight

He had 58. You got your money in with the best hand. Why would you shove and want him to fold?

Likely wouldn't have mattered because people play these things to GAMBOL!!!

I'd hardly call what you did there a 3bet though.

Exactly the reason I dont shove early. I prefer to know I have the best before I shove.

OK I see your point on Gambol, But 58 is taking it to the extreem.

re the 3 bet, What is a 3 bet then, or do you mean I should have bet harder.

Well, I personally would have done the same as you. The flop would have scared me a bit. I think I would have pushed it and then shit myself when the Jh came down. His play on the other hand was pure stupidity.he had a handfull of poop even postflop and he pushed you all in. Your hand should have come out on top.

What a marooon... Could the caller actually had thought his 8's were good for top pair?

I've seen a lot of this, particularly in the micro-limit ring games. People just roll the dice and get lucky.

Hang in there. You will win this more often than not.

I haven't been keeping a log on my HU play but from memory it is about,
$2 HU 20 wins from about 26 games
$5 HU 4 wins from 6 games
$10 2 from 2
I know you can't win them all but this one really got to me.

Yes it was a 3bet just my way of saying it was a little small.
Making it 480 - 500 to go preflop gives you the best chance that he'll get his stack in preflop (which is what we want).

Still you got your $$ in as a huge favorite. What more can you want except to control that which is uncontrollable?

I would have done the same thing as you. He played stupid on his part.

I thought so, but as it was the first hand I didn't want to over commit without seeing the flop, and I thought 1/4 of his stack was enough.

HU with QQ against an unknown, it's almost impossible to over commit IMO.

I'm still too timid as I'm still new to HU, thank you for your input sir, I will try to improve with what I have learnt here.

In this particular hand, you found a maniac, nothing you can do. You were right PF to push, and to call his shove, you were so far ahead when the money went in....

As for why or should one?

In one of the last chapters of HoH2, he details good HU play. First thing he stresses is that you should nearly always call in the SB. Pot odds demand it. And do it with damn near any 2 cards.

Personally, I still can't do it holding 23, but I can with 34, I have an aversion to 72, but I have been calling with it merely because of Harrington.

He goes on and notes that (my words, not his) there really are no garbage hands in HU, but there are premium hands, and a lot more of em. Many of the odds in HU are purer than at a full table. Hand odds for example are easier to figure, as are pot odds. Bluffing odds (can you bluff here, can/might villain?) are nearly impossible to predict tho, and that is a key to HU play.

HU is as different from full table as checkers is to chess. IMO

You know this is unsustainable right?

Also, u 4bet, villain 3bet and if u can get aipf with QQ heads up, do it every time.

Unsustainable is right -- very small, lucky sample.

Your hand brings to mind the time Phil Gordon raised at the HU championship last year, with AA, and Gavin Smith pushed all in. With 10 6. By the river he had the str8 to eliminate Gordon -- I have never seen anyone more POd in my life...

He he he.. wot a fun game we play!!

ok while WV is definitely right about bet size (I'd make it at least 600 here), it's actually a 4-bet if I'm reading correctly. OP raised, villain 3-bet, OP 4-bet.




QFT

QQ HU is the absolute nuts preflop, much like KK in FR. I'd possibly even stack down to JJ preflop just because ranges are so wide and it's so much less likely for one opponent to have you beat. Now if villain has shown to be tight you may adjust, but unless villain has shown he is the biggest nit on the planet, you should never be folding QQ+/AK preflop in HU and you should always do your best to get all the money in with either of these hands.

it would not matter as these players bet with nothing and hope to suck out. its donk play at its best they dont care if they get lucky they may chip up. If not thean they move to the next game and do the same thing...

Theres really nothing you could do, if he called your raise prefolp with rags he was willing to gamble with them. Sometimes if you call the guy a few names after he beats you like that you can get a rematch and then make it up in the next game.

Not only could he have thought that, he'd have been right most of the time. HU is a completely different beast to full ring.

Absolutely nothing wrong with stacking this one off, even first hand. HU, QQ is a crushing hand. Before the flop, unknown villains will be calling you with lower pairs all the way down to deuces, ace-rag, any two paint and maybe even worse.

On that flop, you'll get called by a good chunk of the aforementioned hands as well as draws and garbage that's got any piece of the board. You were about a 75% favourite when the money went in. Just bad luck.