Should I have shoved here?

#1 27th February 2010, 3:37 AM

My first instinct when I got reraised on the flop was that I was ahead. I would have shoved it, but when MP called it, I decided to just call since the chances of me being behind was higher now (one of them could have had a set) and I didn't think at the time that they would have folded even if I shoved.

Turns out UTG reraised with 88, and MP only had 68.

Should I have shoved on the flop since I was out of position. Since I did not shove, had someone threw in a big raise on the K or A, I would have folded.

SB with $2.14
BB with $10.00
UTG with $8.73
MP with $7.22
BTN with $14.90

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: Pokerstars
Dealt to SB:Q♠ T♦
Sklansky group 6
Preflop:
UTG calls [$0.05]
MP calls [$0.05]
1 players fold.
Hero calls [$0.03]
BB: checks
Total folds this street: 1
Potsize: $0.2
Flop: 7♥ Q♣ 5♦ Hero bets [$0.20]
1 players fold.
UTG raises $0.20 to $0.40
MP calls [$0.40] Hero calls [$0.20]
Total folds this street: 1
Potsize: $1.4
Turn: K♥ Hero: checks
UTG bets [$0.20]
MP calls [$0.20] Hero calls [$0.20]
Potsize: $2
River: A♥ Hero: checks
UTG: checks
MP: checks
Results:
Hero shows a pair of Queens: Q♠ 10♦
UTG doesn't show.
MP doesn't show. Hero collected $1.95 from pot

#2 27th February 2010, 4:34 AM

Shoving the flop would be bad - TPMK isn't shoveworthy in a limped pot. You played postflop fine.

Both UTG and MP missed opportunities, though - if UTG had raised pf, he should've taken down the pot (I assume you're not calling pf if he raises, and even if you are, you're folding to a strong flop bet?). MP could've re-raised his straight draw on the flop, his pot equity isn't bad and he should have good fold equity in a limped pot.

#3 27th February 2010, 4:59 AM

qt is too weak for me to play utg....especially with a limp.

#4 27th February 2010, 5:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcor

qt is too weak for me to play utg....especially with a limp.

We're sb - but I actually think it's too weak to play there as well, I don't like completing the sb pf.

Wouldn't mind, though, if we had raised pf to 6.5xbb give or take, giving us initiative postflop and thinning the field (probably taking the pot pf) - all the limpers are likely weak.

#5 27th February 2010, 5:22 AM

I just limp there because if I get called there after a big preflop raise, that leaves me in bad shape. At micro levels, in the past, I've been called by ace rags, and small to medium pocket pairs, all of which I would be in bad shape against on the flop if I don't hit anything. Would have to fold to a raise, so I just decided to limp in and hope to catch a good flop.

#6 27th February 2010, 5:36 AM

The key to making a raise there isn't whether Hero catches anything, it's whether Villain catches anything.

Since you'll have initiative postflop, and Villain will miss the flop most of the time, you can cbet flops that likely missed Villain strongly and he'll have to fold. If Ax is a significant part of his calling range pf, most flops that don't contain an A are good flops to cbet.

#7 27th February 2010, 5:52 PM

If he raises preflop (not knowing how utg plays) utg might 3 bet shove looks like with the limp he might of been waiting on this preflop any how,i'm not sure o.

#8 27th February 2010, 6:13 PM

I think you played this fine. Pre-flop, with the pot odds, folding isn't really an option, and while raising gives us the initiative, our hand is mediocre and we're out of position, so I'd stay away from that option. On the flop I might bet a little less, as it would accomplish pretty much the same thing as your pot-sized bet. Turn call was good, we're probably folding if the bet was around $1, though. Probably c/f river, nice win at showdown.

#9 27th February 2010, 6:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOEBOB69

If he raises preflop (not knowing how utg plays) utg might 3 bet shove looks like with the limp he might of been waiting on this preflop any how,i'm not sure o.

Clear fold then, but this is the exception rather than the norm. We'll win the limp + blinds often enough that this is a winning play.

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