Rebuy Theory - Discussion

Start with this;

Rebuys are interesting, and in many ways interesting here means dangerous.

For those of you who do not understand what Colin is saying, let's simplify, using an invention of sorts.

Single table tourney rebuy (never seen one). Limited rebuys first, then expanded to unlimited rebuys. 10 seat table (for simplicity) we will not talk about the tourney fee's, again for simplicity.

Buy in (bi or BI) is $10, rebuy is $10. again for simplicity lets say you get 1000 chips for your $10 bi (buy in).

Standard game, no rebuys;

The prize pool is $100, and there are 10,000 chips in play. Meaning for each dollar you get 100 chips. Each chip is worth 1 penny.

Limited rebuy - 1 rebuy only

If everyone rebuy's, the total chips in play becomes 20,000 and the prize pool becomes 200 and each chip is still worth 1 penny.

However, as a percentage of the pot, each single chip has lost 1/2 each chip has lost 1/2 its value. (Was 1/10,000 or .0001% of total chips which becomes 1/20,000 or .00005%)

It is not so much that the chips are financially worth less, but each chip has less power. Power equates to a chip, or stack of chips ability to influence action. i.e. fold equity mainly, but there are other implications.

Those 2 games were easy to define and hopefully understand. But then there are the simple variations where only 7 players rebuy, or 3, or do not rebuy at all, they walk away when busted. . Assume you are the chip leader and do not rebuy. When other players do rebuy, they lower the power of your chips. In this case your chips will remain worth 1 penny each, but as more chips join the table, the power of each chip diminishes. However, as each player leaves the table when busted, your chips regain some of that lost power.

OK, you can see things getting a little (a lot even) calculation heavy. UGH!, break out that pocket calculator, this is ICM stuff, and can get thick.

Now we complicate things immensely buy dealing with the unlimited rebuys;

If everyone at this STT starts with a rebuy, we go to the 20,000 total chips with a prize pool of $200 model. Each chip worth a penny (in all variations of this table description, each chip will be worth that same 1 cent, however each chips 'power' will be different).

But everyone rebuying at the very start is unusual, doesn't happen often. So from the start you are tasked with figuring out how many players have re-bought, early, and as the game progresses, how the total chip count in play is affecting your chips value. You can see that it is nearly imposible to keep track of at a small STT if there are active, agro players involved. They will often rebuy veraciously just to get a lot of chips in play thinking they can outplay you later when the stakes have risen, I have read many things suggesting this line of action.

Quick, 239 players start an unlimited rebuy tourney and 88 rebuy before the first deal. What are your chips worth (use above set-up), and do you rebuy?

"Calculate" carbon's dollar frenzy turbo: $1 for 3000 chips w/ unlimited rebuys. Then an add on of 30,000 chips for $1 at 1st break. Makes those rebuys tempting when you can get back in the tourny with a healthy stack the add on chips.

I wonder if it should matter more how many people in the field rebuy immediately or how many at your table do so. I haven't played enough games to have formed a strong opinion either way, but am interested in what people think.

I insta-rebuy at the start of all my tournaments because my edge by having playing a deeper stack vs bad players is greater than the equity $ i lose.

if you were playing a tournament where you had a small/non-existant edge your best option is to buy in as late as possible and addon. addons are worth taking in tournaments because they tend to be worth more than the rebuys so you want to make the addon period

so basically it depends on ur edge which is the problem with the example in the first post, and if you are playing micros your edge should be big enough to just rebuy because your edge when playing deep is going to be more than your edge when playing shallow because leaks are exaggerated as you get deeper

After trying so hard to simplify things, I think I failed.

Rebuys are like inflation irl. Unlimited rebuys are hyper-inflation. You start with a dollar, and it will always be a dollar, but what you can do with it changes.
How fast it changes is dependent on how many players rebuy and how fast they rebuy.

Its simple. Always re-buy when its EV+, and dont re-buy when its EV-.

Exactly.

I always instabuy-in because alot of my opponents will stack off / call all-ins very light at the beginning and I want max value from them.

If we want to go deep we need to double up a few times anyway so why not against the hyper aggro all in maniacs ?

Rebuy instantly. Allows a tight game to be played and you more or less have everyone covered that hasn't already won a big pot as well as rebuying. Its the same theory as in cash games. I'll always buy in for the full amount as it means I have everyone at the table covered (who hasn't already won over the BI) should they wish to go all in and I can beat them. Also gives much more room for manouver and allows post flop skills to be used.

read OP tho - in cash games, each chip is worth the same whenever you rebuy. the only reason to have everyone covered in a rebuy MTT is because you have an edge