Is it really a bad call suited connectors all-in in multi-way pot?

Hello,

I've come across this situation numerous times before and this can be either cash or tournament play so would like your advice.

At a full ring table, if you are 100bb deep in either cash or tournament mode is it really a bad call to call shoves if it's a multi-way pot with suited connectors 6-7/8-9/10-J?

I've had this happens numerous times and the amount of times I've landed Aces or Kings and had to shove with against other pairs and suited connectors, it's very often a pair is any good in multiway all-in pots. Quite often someone with 2 cards (suited or not) in a multiway pot have so many outs to create such a monster I wonder if it's correct to call with 4+ people entering the pot?

I know it isn't the best play in tournament mode early on, but even so sometimes it can be tempting, as daft as it sounds I love being all-in with suited connectors and feel more confident with them winning as opposed to Aces or Kings all in against 4/5 people.

Thoughts?

Not a cash game player myself, but in tourny's its not a good idea. If they are all in pre flop and it'll take most of your stack, its a big no. If these people want to gamble, let them, it's only going to increase your tourny equity when they get knocked out. This aplies to SNG's also, you don't need to gamble to win.
(The exception is if your super SS with ~1BB, putting your money in with 4 or 5 callers/all-ins is giving you a great price for your suited connectors to get 6 - 7 x the BB by winning).

I'll tell you a little secret. No hand wins much in a multi-way pot. It just so happens AA wins the most. And actually the more people who are all-in before the flop the more profitable AA is.

yeah, until your aces get busted. I really wouldn't even say "AA wins the most"

if you wouldnt say that, you are just wrong. It wins less pots if more people enter, but that doesn't imply it doesn't win more MONEY, because that is what we are playing for.

Well obviously I don't dispute that if you could get Aces every hand and had every go all in you would be +EV in the long run.

However, that isn't the case and I was seeing if anyone knew if it was a really bad call to call with pot odds all-in pre flop WHEN there is 4 or 5 all-in preflop. Obviously this doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, is it worth a call?

lolololol at this thread

I'd only be playing small SC's from the CO and up unless you wanna find yourself in trouble, even then you'd want to be careful.

Calling in these situations 100bb deep would usually be bad. As for a single pair usually not being the best hand multiway, well kinda.
equity.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36911&d=1300460301)

In the situation above AA wins slightly less than 50% of the time BUT when it does win it takes 3 times the amount risked. In other words if stacks are 1000 each:

AA - (48.9% * 4000) - (51.1% * 1000)= 1956 - 511 = +1445 chips for every call with AA

76s - (20.3% * 4000) - (79.7% * 1000) = 812 - 797 = +15 chips for every call with 76s

I'll take the "single pair".

I thought the question was about suited connectors not if AA or KK is better than Suited connectors? hahaha

I am not a pro and a newbie at understanding the Math of poker but if I am in a tourney and I am 100BB I may call with suited connectors because if there are 3-4 people in the pot you are EV+ and have a chance to knock out a few opponents and increase stack. This would depend on the % of stack I would have at risk, how close we are to the $, chip stack of opponents (are they needing to open shove) and dont forget about implied odds. So really I think it is a situational call that would require more detail to say yes or no either way (So I think it would be safe to say it is a justafiable call at least some times).

If it is a cash game I might have to think thoereticly you should take it if you think you are EV+. Unlike tournament you can cash back in if you loose so you want to take as many EV+ bets as you can as in the long run you will be profitable. I cant say my cash game is all that strong as I would likely fold this even if I was EV+.

No code has to be inserted here.
[table=head]Hand |Pot equity |Wins |Ties
5%|22.83% |130,499|13,760
3%|28.62% |164,132|15,915
3%|28.67% |164,407|15,944
7s6s|19.88% |118,956|1,303
[/table]

AA all in against one might be cool but more than one caller often find it loses, connectors seem to win more than most hands.

Do you have Poker Stove? If not get it.

Play around with your SC and put in the ranges you think you will be against.

FWIW, if I am on a full table and 100 BB deep and have 78-TJs ( are we talking effective stacks here?) no way am I CALLING a shove in a multi way pot.........

if you don't have pokerstove, just use propokertools.com

I have a sincere question,is it ever a good idea multiway or not to call an all in with just 67 because there suited,yeah sure in a tourny if someones down to a couple of blinds i'll call with atc

There are some very short stack situations where a call with ATC is correct, and SC's have more equity than two random cards, but that generally applies to a HU pot. You won't often find a spot to call down multiple people who all have only a couple of blinds. So if you want to iso the shortie with ATC and you aren't last to act, you're going to essentially be bluff raising to keep those behind you out of the pot. If you just call, they're going to be priced in behind you to play and try to steal the pot.

In tournaments i would not advise that because of the equity. Chips do not represent money and the chips i have are more important than the chips i could get. ?

At cash tables it is obvious that on the long run you have to consider the rake. Is the rake bigger or lower than the possible profit you may get on the long run? Strong pro players calculate even the rake they loose because is the difference between profit and loss.

Please tell me this post is a level.... pleazzzzzzzz

In other words, pretty much the most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile.

well, if you're on the big blind and you're 100BB deep, and you have four all ins preflop, and the pot is worth 10 BB and you only have to call 1.5 BB to take it down...

Well, it's only an extra 1.5BB

You can afford to burn it.

Trouble is, at 100BB you don't need to win that pot to make or break your tourney either. Sure you might take it down once in awhile but the times you don't you'll be giving your chips to a worse player than you who may, in turn, give them to a better player than you.

No matter what angle you're looking at it's counter productive and -EV

Same situation if your stack is 3BB?

Hell yeah shove in with all of 'em. You won't get a better spot to gamble for your life and 4x your stack.

Still shouldn't be expecting to win it though.