Reading Maniacs

#1 10th June 2011, 2:23 AM

Hello All, Lately I've been in a Slump of Never Ending BBs+Bad Calls+Coolers+Stupid Plays...To be honest I find that I bring it all about myself, I mean Making a Bad Call is Well -EV for the Simple Fact that your losing, and also at the same time Making a Bad Fold is Also a -Play, so My Question is How do you read Maniacs? Do you Automatically Assume that they don't bluff Or do you rethink your ways and Assume that they do bluff? Now assuming that the "Said" Maniac is Bluffing, then It's easy to make the call against them, but in Micro Games, where PPL fold Less and Call more, then Really Separating yourself from them is a Matter of Reads correct? The More Correct Reads you make the More/Better Chance you have to make it far in Tourneys, but the same theory holds true also, the More Correct Calls you make the more of a Better Chance you have to win it correct?

My Example is a Low Buyin 10K GTD tourney over on Stars, I held QQ preflop and it was Early on, 25/50 Level, and we had about 7k we raised 200 or so, Got 1 caller, Flop came with an Ace/5/8 (Down those lines), we Check the Person Shoved, we fold, same Scenario kept coming up, against the same player, but it was always My Pair vs W/E he held and he never Folded, now because of this, our Chips Kept going down, Until I raised Once more this time blinds 200-400 with KK, and he called again and Again Flop came A/10/7, We checked and the person Shoved again....We called and lost....Now Yes I made a Bad call, and Yes I could've folded, and Yes I could've done this and that, my Question is Do I believe when these players shove that they have it, Yes or No? Would it not be Better to Assume that they Have the Goods when the Scare Cards Come up that way we can still be Saved somewhat?

#2 10th June 2011, 3:09 AM

I have seen maniacs toss up insane bets with 95 and have already missed the flop. I think they just toss chips in and hope for the best. The only way I deal with them is not trying to read them, I play my cards. Yes you will miss flops and your initial raise is gone when they raise, but when you hit and check, it is all worth it, they ship it back plus some.
I am not sure about tournament play though, I suck at those and with blinds going up I guess you don't have all day to wait for a hand.

#3 10th June 2011, 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naruto_miu

Now Yes I made a Bad call, and Yes I could've folded, and Yes I could've done this and that, my Question is Do I believe when these players shove that they have it, Yes or No? Would it not be Better to Assume that they Have the Goods when the Scare Cards Come up that way we can still be Saved somewhat?

When maniacs shove they obviously have it less times than they have the nuts, unless they r on fire... in your case, sitting with QQ or KK when A flops, is awful scenario, one way or the other. You have to decide if maniac is a board bluffer, if has been shown to be, is a call... depending on relative stacks and tourney position, may also be a fold... In short, you can't assume they have the goods, you can't assume anything lol

#4 11th June 2011, 4:22 PM

folding is always 0ev.

#5 11th June 2011, 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makwa

When maniacs shove they obviously have it less times than they have the nuts, unless they r on fire... in your case, sitting with QQ or KK when A flops, is awful scenario, one way or the other. You have to decide if maniac is a board bluffer, if has been shown to be, is a call... depending on relative stacks and tourney position, may also be a fold... In short, you can't assume they have the goods, you can't assume anything lol

So really, everything basically depends on the situation rather than just a simple call or fold based on craziness lol

#6 11th June 2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rssurfer54

folding is always 0ev.

How is it always a Fold? Yes Fold is better, but isn't that -EV play, Knowning that the Maniac has it less times then you'd Presume that they have it? Yes Folding is a Safer Route, but it always isn't the best rough

#7 11th June 2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naruto_miu

I mean Making a Bad Call is Well -EV for the Simple Fact that your losing, and also at the same time Making a Bad Fold is Also a -Play,

I was just noting that you said making a bad fold is a negative play, but it is always 0ev. Since you were comparing to the negative ev of a bad call, I assumed you mean negative play = negative ev.

Of course, a play could be defined as negative more generally, but I didn't think that is what you meant.

#8 12th June 2011, 2:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rssurfer54

I was just noting that you said making a bad fold is a negative play, but it is always 0ev. Since you were comparing to the negative ev of a bad call, I assumed you mean negative play = negative ev.

Of course, a play could be defined as negative more generally, but I didn't think that is what you meant.

Ya I meant, Negative Play=Negative EV, sry brain works faster then hands sometimes, but the thought processes comes out strangely

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