the problem with skill level at lower stakes

Ok so my question is on something that I hear all the time, preached and preached, over and over. Its a general poker golden rule, that you always play at lower stakes until you feel your skill level has progressed, and you have the $ or points or graphs to prove that you are performing well at that stake. Whenever I play in the micro stakes, it seems like these fools I play against NEVER fold preflop, ALWAYS make HUGE overbets on a RIDICULOUS draw, and will CONTINUE to chase all the way to the river. Its damn near impossible to isolate in position, cbet, and let alone bluff. How in the hell can people survive playing with a table full of fish without let alone becoming one?!?!

Just lurk in the weeds....by that I mean wait until you hit a few flops and make them pay. Do not bluff vs calling stations...occasional semi-bluffs in the right spots are fine.

Sounds simple but easier said than done (have a tough time doing it myself), patience is the key.

become a ghost on the table, pick your spots and make some table imagine with well played hands and as said above dont bluff calling stations

kcanuck said:

Just lurk in the weeds....by that I mean wait until you hit a few flops and make them pay. Do not bluff vs calling stations...occasional semi-bluffs in the right spots are fine.

Sounds simple but easier said than done (have a tough time doing it myself), patience is the key.

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dadsrus said:

become a ghost on the table, pick your spots and make some table imagine with well played hands and as said above dont bluff calling stations

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thanks fellas...basically what ive been doing...its crazy how i have more success when i play in higher stakes, i obviously need to work on my fishing skills

its in your head, every player that can beat higher stakes can crush every stake below them for heaps.

duggs said:

its in your head, every player that can beat higher stakes can crush every stake below them for heaps.

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thats what i thought...maybe im just too impatient, i dk but the shit pisses me off

trust me you dont beat higher stakes if you struggle at lower ones

Higher stakes, tougher players. Still lots of fish mixed in but there are more players capable of outplaying you.

Sucks when the microdonks get lucky vs you, sticks in your memory. Truth is though, they pay out much more than they suck out.

Geez...I should start listening to my own advice

triplesyxx said:

Whenever I play in the micro stakes, it seems like these fools I play against NEVER fold preflop, ALWAYS make HUGE overbets on a RIDICULOUS draw, and will CONTINUE to chase all the way to the river. Its damn near impossible to isolate in position, cbet, and let alone bluff. How in the hell can people survive playing with a table full of fish without let alone becoming one?!?!

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Don't bluff calling stations unless it's a c-bet but give up if they call, otherwise you're going to be 3barreling and going broke wondering how they could call you with bottom pair when in fact you should realize by their play that they are going to call you light so don't bet them light.
Also don't call their overbets and when you have a good hand raise them.
Ex: History with this player, 1st game raises almost every hand I had 10bb's shove QJ they call with 79 my hand holds up. After seeing this call I make note of how light said player raises and calls allins so here is the 2nd aipf where I overbet his early pos. raise.
Play the player not the game

"Its damn near impossible to isolate in position, cbet, and let alone bluff."

Dont do it then.

Well, cbetting is fine, unless you have very small equity in the hand, just c/fold utter air.

If you cannot crush the micro fish then it is because you have not adapted to the game.

1) Play about 10% of hands (less is fine)
2) Value bet like a nutter
3) Win

since you are an expert member, i can only assume you are a part of the CC Freeroll club, my 2cents are to continue with those free rolls, and don't waste your money fishing with the donks, good luck!

Dyabetix said:

my 2cents are to continue with those free rolls, and don't waste your money fishing with the donks, good luck!

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What does that even mean?

starting_at_the_bottom said:

What does that even mean?

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Firstly, this means exactly what it says. Do not waste time and money on lower stakes where you have experienced a consistent amount of fish. This can be very difficult, because alas, that is where they play.

Secondly, please do not take my "new member" status as indicative of play. I'm glad you have time to write many posts to achieve "expert" status. I'm sure that leaves you ample time at the tables.

Lower stakes is pretty straightforward. Play tight and let your hands do the talking until you get a big chip stack, and that's when you can apply pressure and steal blinds until the final table.

At the final table you should really consider what chip stacks are and which people might knock out which people, and who is shoving/calling light.

kcanuck said:

Just lurk in the weeds....by that I mean wait until you hit a few flops and make them pay. Do not bluff vs calling stations...occasional semi-bluffs in the right spots are fine.

Sounds simple but easier said than done (have a tough time doing it myself), patience is the key.

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Good advice,but you still need a lot of luck to dodge all the bullitts..

duggs said:

trust me you dont beat higher stakes if you struggle at lower ones

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Dont agree..I win more at higher stakes than lower,the money means more at the higher end.

steveiam said:

Dont agree..I win more at higher stakes than lower,the money means more at the higher end.

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You don't need to agree, it's fact based so disagreeing isnt an option.

Also; you don't and if you have, you certainly have been lucky or have a very small sample size and been on the good side of varience.

I'll wager any amount of 100k hands played at 2nl & 100nl that a player has a bigger winrate over 2nl as opposed to 100nl. Let me know if you want to bet.

ramdeebam said:

You don't need to agree, it's fact based so disagreeing isnt an option.

Also; you don't and if you have, you certainly have been lucky or have a very small sample size and been on the good side of varience.

I'll wager any amount of 100k hands played at 2nl & 100nl that a player has a bigger winrate over 2nl as opposed to 100nl. Let me know if you want to bet.

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+1.

ramdeebam said:

You don't need to agree, it's fact based so disagreeing isnt an option.

Also; you don't and if you have, you certainly have been lucky or have a very small sample size and been on the good side of varience.

I'll wager any amount of 100k hands played at 2nl & 100nl that a player has a bigger winrate over 2nl as opposed to 100nl. Let me know if you want to bet.

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We will have to agree to disagree !!

steveiam said:

We will have to agree to disagree !!

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lol, well you can say that however you're 100% wrong if you honestly believe that statement you said.

ramdeebam said:

lol, well you can say that however you're 100% wrong if you honestly believe that statement you said.

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You maybe right, but i can only comment on my own performance..

steveiam said:

You maybe right, but i can only comment on my own performance..

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Well what do you mean?

Like how many hands have you played at say 2nl as opposed to higher stakes and compared winrates?

I'd be very impressed if you can show me a higher winrate at a higher limit over decent sample sizes and then show a smaller winrate at the lower limits.

Patience is key to beating the micros consistently no other way. Strict ABC poker and the money will follow guaranteed.

I only generally play cash live so giving you any winrates would be difficult if not impossible. But im more than happy with my winnings.

Zin said:

Patience is key to beating the micros consistently no other way. Strict ABC poker and the money will follow guaranteed.

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This does not work for me... I catch my big hands as often as I catch my questionable hands.

"Its damn near impossible to isolate in position, cbet, and let alone bluff."

This is wrong I have done all these at the micro stakes a lot.