I have no idea if this thread will be locked or banned ... just thought hey I am really digging this whole Omaha thing so why not try to get some other CCers on the bandwagon.

I've put in ~1500 hands playing 10 & 25 PLO at Stars so far this month and plan to play more. Interesting things I have learned so far:

1. The majority of PLO is played 6max. No kiddin!
2. Good grief people pay you off when you have the stone cold nuts.
3. Good grief people show you the stone cold nuts when they bet!
4. HEM 1.08 with Omaha support (beta) is awesome.
5. DeucesCracked has the best Omaha videos around.
6. Jeff Hwang's book on Omaha is awesome (and cheap).

Anyone else down for this fun game? It's called by some the future of poker!

Great idea for a thread, Ice.

I've played some PLO this month too. 25 & 50. I've found 50 to be quite harder than 25, but maybe it's just because i'm still a fish at PLO.

Didn't know the HEM beta had Omaha support. Will download that tonight.

Just finished reading Hwang's book. Very nice indeed. The only issue is that i think he mostly plays FR and the huge majority of online games is indeed 6max, so i think his approach may be a little bit too nitty for 6max. Of course that's just a guess. As I said, I'm a fish at PLO.

I played about 1k hands this month PLO 6mx. Also started watching V-Selbst's 2x6 series which is goot imo.

I have a lot to learn.... I chked the nut flopped str8 on 2 streets and didn't even know I had it .

Anyways, I may play a little more in April.

How do I d/l the HEM beta as I can't find it, links anyone?

Originally Posted by Jagsti

How do I d/l the HEM beta as I can't find it, links anyone?

you have to go to the HEM forums for latest releases: http://www.holdemmanager.net/forum/f...splay.php?f=11

The latest beta is here: http://rvgsoftware.fileburst.com/Hm1.08Beta.exe

Good idea for a thread..

I go play PLO 25 when I'm bored sometimes just to try and get a feel for it... very interesting game.

I suck at it though currently.

Lock/ban this thread plz. I mean it was started by some guy who is currently on a break AND it's about some crazy ass 4 hole card game AND everyone knows it's spelled Omahahalol.

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

Lock/ban this thread plz. I mean it was started by some guy who is currently on a break AND it's about some crazy ass 4 hole card game AND everyone knows it's spelled Omahahalol.

At least there is no hi/lo mentioned, that would really be kerazy

Omaha rocks btw but 2 pair is often poop

I haven't ventured to 100 PLO ... and by most standards I'm even under-rolled for it as most of my research says that you need 60-70 buyins per level!

I played two sessions (for the first time) of 25 PLO 6max which was fun. Basically I think you're just sitting back waiting for the big hand and never ever cbet-bluffing. Game is pretty passive and most play a 40/2 game. I haven't play 50 PLO yet.

The Selbst + Hwang combo is a great one and the exact same that I am doing to get an Omaha education. I 100% agree that Hwang's book is geared towards full ring play which there is very little of online.

Hi/Lo is pretty fun too, I've played some of that, and it's hilarious to see people throw their entire stack into a pot to take the low and get quartered. But for now I am sticking with PLO.

And yeah top two pair flopped is often a recipe for disaster. Fun right!

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

Lock/ban this thread plz. I mean it was started by some guy who is currently on a break AND it's about some crazy ass 4 hole card game AND everyone knows it's spelled Omahahalol.

Good points...

Ice man... not trying to tell ya what to do but pretty sure a break doesn't involve posting/playing poker at all

if you think a different game is helping you shift focus as well as a total break would though..that's kinda your call. we just want ya to get things going the right direction again!

Originally Posted by beardyian

At least there is no hi/lo mentioned, that would really be kerazy

Omaha rocks btw but 2 pair is often poop

yeah... are we talking omaha hi/lo or just hi? probably should decide that now.


and..my one comment on hi/lo is there are waaaaay too many "I HAVE A2xx AND TEH NUT LOW.. JAM-A-LAM-LOLZ" running around

I made like 1.5k playing O8 sng's so i can probably help people out with that game if needed

If I played more omaha I'd definitely be a member at deuces. Vanessa is super sharp and the couple videos I've seen (when they first started and it was free for a couple weeks) of hers have been great. The paying site I frequent is great for razz but the omaha instruction kind of blows there. CR has some really good vids too for PLO.

And +1 on JH's book.

Very first lesson must be - what is the best starting hand?

Esp for hi/lo as i always believed you should aim mainly for the hi hand as even if it split at least you win a little as opposed to a potential nothing if the lo misses.

I play some micro HU PLO sngs but only win by the people I play being even more PLOtarded than I am. Would like to learn how to play it well tbh. Nice idea ice

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

I've put in ~1500 hands playing 10 & 25 PLO at Stars so far this month and plan to play more. Interesting things I have learned so far:

1. The majority of PLO is played 6max. No kiddin!
2. Good grief people pay you off when you have the stone cold nuts.
3. Good grief people show you the stone cold nuts when they bet!
4. HEM 1.08 with Omaha support (beta) is awesome.
5. DeucesCracked has the best Omaha videos around.
6. Jeff Hwang's book on Omaha is awesome (and cheap).

Anyone else down for this fun game? It's called by some the future of poker!

6-max is pretty easy to understand, imo. Most current online poker players learned playing Holdem. Being a drawing game, Omaha-ha fits perfectly into the 'chasing the draw' mentality, and I think cash players understand that a 6-max limits the number of potential mega-way pots.

stone cold nuts don't happen all the time. A lot of players believe 2 pair is likely the best hand, not paying attention to the board. It's def a bit more of a 'thinking' game than Holdem.

future of poker - huh?? ... only if they can convince the hordes of donkeys that Omahee-haw will give them more hee-hawing opportunities. If Omahee-haw is the 'future' - I'm taking up knitting ....

I also don't think you'll find the grinders multi-tabling 8-12 Omaha rings either. Snap decisions on best 2 hole cards and 5 of 7 is one thing. Best 4 starters and 5 of 9 cards is quite another.

Ice man... not trying to tell ya what to do but pretty sure a break doesn't involve posting/playing poker at all

Dude I'm a guide here at CC and that comes with some responsibilities. I have separated my "NLHE career" self with my "CC Guide" self. Getting good topics going in these threads is a responsibility I've taken on and will not abandon just because I hit a downswing.

Also this thread was intended to discuss PLO Hi only, I figured we can start there and move forward as we wish since this is the first Omaha thread, maybe, ever for discussion of ongoing strategy.

And yes many in the industry feel that all the NLHE players will move to Omaha in the next 3-5 years. Will it? I dunno, I just know it's a fun game. Variance? Yeah, playing this game with more draws and 6max ... a lot more variance than HE, but the good news is that winrates are higher too, so it really is a balance.

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

Also this thread was intended to discuss PLO Hi only, I figured we can start there and move forward as we wish since this is the first Omaha thread, maybe, ever for discussion of ongoing strategy.

Yeah totally agree, that hi/lo bullshit will make my head assplode!

Also re: the high variance.... Just what me and you need Ice, a game with more variance than NL.... lol this should be fun .

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

Dude I'm a guide here at CC and that comes with some responsibilities. I have separated my "NLHE career" self with my "CC Guide" self. Getting good topics going in these threads is a responsibility I've taken on and will not abandon just because I hit a downswing.

Also this thread was intended to discuss PLO Hi only, I figured we can start there and move forward as we wish since this is the first Omaha thread, maybe, ever for discussion of ongoing strategy.

And yes many in the industry feel that all the NLHE players will move to Omaha in the next 3-5 years. Will it? I dunno, I just know it's a fun game. Variance? Yeah, playing this game with more draws and 6max ... a lot more variance than HE, but the good news is that winrates are higher too, so it really is a balance.

Fair enough..like I said, I'm not trying to tell you what to do so I hope it didn't come off that way =) just trying to be a friend and help, although reading my post later I think that didn't come off very well. I do think this thread is a great idea though and am glad you started it..



as to the bolded part... that's really interesting.. I hadn't heard that. Although I haven't really been paying omaha a ton of attention either although I'm very interested in possibly picking it up more seriously.

From my very limited experience... I think there is a good bit of money to be made right now in it if you are any good... Mainly this is because there are a ton of people who are fooling around with it at lower stakes at least and have no idea what they are doing so the number of people making massive mistakes is very high compared to hold em. However, the preflop equity difference between a good hand and a bad hand in omaha isn't as wide as it is in hold em either so variance should be higher.



Example: I've seen more than once somebody complaining about why "their flush didn't win" when they had something like: Ad Kh 7c 5c and the board was Kd Qd 8d 2d 9s or something like that...

In other words, knowing how to read your hand and count your outs isn't as simple as it is in hold em and people need to make sure they know how to do that well first. This is mainly for people wandering into this thread who haven't really tried omaha before.

Originally Posted by nevadanick

stone cold nuts don't happen all the time. A lot of players believe 2 pair is likely the best hand, not paying attention to the board. It's def a bit more of a 'thinking' game than Holdem.

While this may be true for a ton of players... draws, especially combo draws tend to be king since with 4 hole cards there are often many many ways to make a flush or straight... 1 pair is almost never good and 2 is often not good... even a set you have to be fairly cautious with.

Originally Posted by nevadanick

I also don't think you'll find the grinders multi-tabling 8-12 Omaha rings either. Snap decisions on best 2 hole cards and 5 of 7 is one thing. Best 4 starters and 5 of 9 cards is quite another.

While I agree, this will all really depend on the person and their comfort level. Plenty of people 24+ table hold em and those people once they pick up omaha probably will find 10-12 tables not too crazy. I certainly don't recommend going nuts with the tables till you have a good idea about what you are doing though!

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

a lot more variance than HE, but the good news is that winrates are higher too, so it really is a balance.

Can you explain to me how the winrates are higher? The lose-rates would also be higher (than NLHE), and therein lies the balance? Or do you mean that you win more than you lose if you're proficient, as most Omaha players are so marginal. In any game at all, the winnings and losses still add up to 100%.

No surprise that most Omaha HI are 6 table. No one wants to wait all day for a nut hand. At a 6-table, you can widen your range of hands slightly, and actually get to play a bit. And position as not as fearsome a nuisance. As Nevadanick suggested, the pots might be smaller in a 6-way, it's a tradeoff for seeing more action. At any rate, just from my personal experience, the adjustments from a 9-table to a 6 seem fairly simple - at least easier than vice-versa (going from a 6 to a 9). BTW, the 9-tables are still available at FT & PS, it just maybe 1/5 of them.

In Omaha HL, 9 is more popular than 6 table. And no surprise there either. Many hands you'd throw away in Hi only are beauties in HL (i.e. A23k suited once), so even at a 9-table you'll see enough action.

Checked out that deucescracked. The forums seemed slow, blogs listed only by author name, no titles. The videos seemed great, but there was nothing for free, at least not in Omaha HL. I might check it out for a free week, but $30 a month seemed a little steep. I might even be able get through the videos of interest in a week.

Originally Posted by jagsti

Also re: the high variance.... Just what me and you need Ice, a game with more variance than NL.... lol this should be fun .

No shit. I think that's why I'm just experimenting by playing 10 or 25 PLO and watching videos and reading books. It's a great way to keep the mind on poker and off of variance/beats/nlhe. I don't think I plan to play PLO "seriously" in the near future but I think learning a new game is a helluva lot of fun.

How are all the fish going to find their way to PLO? The only way it will get popular is if the fish go there.. the pros will follow. Online has done a bit in the way of getting PLO out there but the population can't be growing that much.

Now, if WPT, High Stakes, Poker After Dark, etc.. start showing Omaha games on TV.. then you'll have schools of fish jumping online to play. Omaha has SOOO much more opportunity for mistakes I imagine the profitability would be huge.

Originally Posted by Divebitch

Can you explain to me how the winrates are higher? The lose-rates would also be higher (than NLHE), and therein lies the balance? Or do you mean that you win more than you lose if you're proficient, as most Omaha players are so marginal. In any game at all, the winnings and losses still add up to 100%.

Basically I've interviewed and read through a bunch of forums where winrates for micro and low stakes omaha players were discussed. The "regs" pretty much all say the same thing:

- Get ready for WILD swings
- Get ready for 75-100k breakeven stretches
- The overwhelming majority of omaha players are terrible, so even with the wild swings your winrate for microstakes can be in the 8-10BB/100 neighborhood and mid-stakes guys were saying 5-8BB/100 was possible.

Originally Posted by Divebitch

In Omaha HL, 9 is more popular than 6 table. And no surprise there either. Many hands you'd throw away in Hi only are beauties in HL (i.e. A23k suited once), so even at a 9-table you'll see enough action.

Yup yup again I am just focusing on PLO Hi, not the HL variety which I believe is played more full ring than PLO which seems to be almost 90-10% played 6max.

Originally Posted by Divebitch

Checked out that deucescracked. I might check it out for a free week, but $30 a month seemed a little steep. I might even be able get through the videos of interest in a week.

The thing about DC is that you can join and download all the videos you want during that 30 days and the videos stay on your computer and you can watch them forever and ever. So for $30 to raid their library seems well worth the investment if you plan to play PLO at all semi-regularly.

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

4. HEM 1.08 with Omaha support (beta) is awesome.

Anyone using this...how stable is the beta?

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

... a lot more variance than HE, but the good news is that winrates are higher too, so it really is a balance.

Everything I've read and my own experiences say that variance is LOWER once you reach a certain level of proficiency.

I don't know how much PLO I'm going to play in April but I have about 30K hands experience over the last year or so, it should be fun to follow this thread.

Hopefully this becomes popular

I have been using HEM 1.08 Private Beta Build 3 (omaha) and it's real solid for having a HUD and keeping track of results at the cash game tables. I haven't seen any glaring issues with it at all.

Originally Posted by spore

How are all the fish going to find their way to PLO?

Dude, they are already there.

I wasn't running a hud as I haven't installed the beta yet..but I will..

I played some $25 PLO 6 max earlier today and made ~$100 in about an hour

I readily admit I suck at this game, but I hadn't played any in awhile and the fish were freaking everywhere...

In an hour I had:

- Nut flush paid off by someone with TPTK

- Quads paid off by a straight

- Full house paid off by a flush

- Full house paid off by two pair


I basically wasn't doing anything other than sitting there and being a nut peddling nit for the most part.. people were paying off so light. although if I had position on some people who I felt could be pushed around I would pretty much push them around with anything. Implied odds felt like they were through the roof..I was basically just doing a lot of calling in position with hands that had potential... suited aces + pairs, good double suited cards, stuff like TJQK works pretty well too it seems...


will have to do that some more..it was fun.

still have much to learn though

I have a few freeroll games of experience (I googled how to play Omaha Hi, and decided it was worth a try). I got discouraged after losing pretty quickly, even if I got lucky in the first 20 minutes. I learned that the best hands aren't exactly the same as they are in Holdem (went all in with AA and something that looked really good once and lost all of my chips).

Maybe there is some good strategy I can learn; hey you reached one person! I'm actually really interested about learning Razz, since my friend said you get to try to get the WORST hand, but I read about bad hands and didn't understand it really.. so Hi/Lo and razz are things I must learn.

I will probably not post much in here but I will def, be watching. I played a little 10c/25c and had fun, but I talked to Ice and he said some preparing is due if you wana make money, soooo I will be hangin around, dont mind me

I think I have a good grip on the games and then I start reading threads like this and realize... crap I'm behind. Good info guys. One day at a time with the learning, lol. Practice makes perfect... right?

Originally Posted by spore

How are all the fish going to find their way to PLO? The only way it will get popular is if the fish go there.. the pros will follow. Online has done a bit in the way of getting PLO out there but the population can't be growing that much.

Now, if WPT, High Stakes, Poker After Dark, etc.. start showing Omaha games on TV.. then you'll have schools of fish jumping online to play. Omaha has SOOO much more opportunity for mistakes I imagine the profitability would be huge.

you don't need fish for a game to be juicy. u just need bad regs. (there are lots at PLO)


heh whenever i play PLO i always am convinced i know exactly what i'm doing, but in reality i'm just mashing the pot button a lot when i have kool looking hands

I played in my first PLO HU SNG ... $2 i know ... but actually had a lot of fun. Stacked off after I flopped the Ace high straight and the bastard just had a 7-card flush draw (he had 3 clubs and I had one, and 2 on the board) and nothing else but hit ... then with a 2700-300 deficit I fought back and won. It was a lot of fun and actually great experience so I recommend em!

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

I have been using HEM 1.08 Private Beta Build 3 (omaha)

how did you get the private beta? Public beta does not have the omaha support yet it seems.

OK, since I don't have a book onPLO and I'm just looking at the DC vidoes can we have some start discussion.

As has been previously mentioned, the simplest thing to start off with will be starting hand requirements, so will do that then yeah?

From the VS vid she was pointing out that wraps appear to be the best type of hands especially with a gap in the lower end as opposed to the upper end of the wrap.

For example hands like 9875, 7653 as opposed to 9765, 7543. Wraps are cool cos they give us so many combo's.

Also hands that contain suited cards, especially double suited, are hands that have way more value than say for most lower pair type hands imo.

Any comments?

BTW Belgo - thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by Jagsti

From the VS vid she was pointing out that wraps appear to be the best type of hands especially with a gap in the lower end as opposed to the upper end of the wrap.

For example hands like 9875, 7653 as opposed to 9765, 7543. Wraps are cool cos they give us so many combo's.

And gap at bottom are cooler than gap at top because when you draw, most of the straight outs are nut outs, while with gap at top, a lot of your outs only make second nut, which tends to be expensive in PLO.