Pocket Pair

Hi, I need some advise on pocket pair. I keep getting them and either busting or donking off chips. In a game yesterday I pushed pre-flop once with 99 got called and flopped a 9 Then when down to final 6 and short stacked pushed pre-flop with 44 called busted 6th.
Sometimes early on I find myself calling small raises only to fold to a bigger raise on the river. Or I'll bet out first 3x big blind get called bet flop (if all are lower than PP) get called and see an A or K on the turn - feel intimidated and check to than be put all in. Fold arrrgh
Should I go for it? or should I have value bet turn? Or is there a range of PP that should just be folded unless final table scenario?
thanks Lady T

I will assume tournament play.

The value of Small pocket (99-22, for me) pairs really comes from their implied odds. when you are deep stacked (20BB or more) calling one small raise is fine but try to limp with them if possible. What you want to do is hit a set or fold, that is it. Ideally what you want it to hit your set on a non scary board against some who will then shove AA or KK. You aren't really looking to win pots by betting with just a pair 88 after the flop. Is it possible sure but it is not a beginner strategy. At the micros it is dangerous becuase there are so many chasers that small pair is very unlikely to go to show down as a winner.

Being Short Stacked and short handed tables are a little different and also more complex. So I will wait for more specific situations and other responses before tackling that.

yes tourney. Thanks Steve, in the morning cc game I thought about what you said trying to limp - hit a set or fold - that's exactly what I tried and was out only BB when beat and made some extra $$ when hit set. I'm sorry I don't have hand history or expl. my play in better poker terminology , but I do appreciate your evaluation and advice :-)

In the CC games be aware that you are up against some more advanced players so they will recognize your limps as suited connecters and small pp (pocket pairs). In that case it important to limp a big hand occasionally 10-15% of the time and to raise small pp and Suited connectors 10% of the time to try to confuse them.

got ya, thanks

i really dont think you should ahve pushed with pocket 4s.. low pocket pairs are really not that great.. you're racing against 2 over cards and dominated by an over pair... when playing small pocket pairs you should limp or raise a small bit and hope to flop a set... if you get jacks or above that should be considered a premium hand and you could perhaps push with those... but 3s and 4s.. you really shouldn't risk your tournament life with it..

Yeah anything less than pocket 8's i wouldnt regard too highly unless you flop a set.

Depending on how short stacked you were and the really important thing to think about is what postion you were in..... I don't have a problem shoving a low PP. If you are shortstacked and on the button I have no problem with a shove to try and get the blinds. Pushing from UTG or mid-postion is much more risky but if you are seriously that low then sometimes you gotta go for it and hope for the best.......

p.s.- I will show you how to get your HH's so you can start posting those as well.

That would be a very good thing me thinks.

8.2 times out of a hundred equals 33%?


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Get a cheap look at the flop with mid to low pockets. Catch a third card before the river, give a thoughtful pause, and bet hard at the end. Suckers with pairs will make donations.

Keep in mind EVERYTHING depends on the players at your table and the chip counts. Playing the players is just as if not more important than playing the cards

Yea, when playing pocket pairs nines and below you always want to limp with them if its cheap to do so. With a raised pot you don't really want to be calling.
You need to be aware of the odds.
The maximum outs you have for hitting a set are obviously 2.
-- The odds of hitting a set on the flop are 10.8%
-- The odds of hitting a set on the turn are 4.3% (23/1)
-- The odds of hitting a set on the river are 4.4.% (22/1)
-- Together the odds of hitting on the turn or river generally are 8.4% (11/1)


As we can see from the odds calling a raise for a set isn't the best thing to do. Try to limp cheaply to see the flop and remember to not be a
"Pair Donkey"
meaning that you play pairs as if they are unbeatable.

Hope all that helped!

RK

I would limp in with many low pocket pairs, unless you are playing at a table of 4 or less. Cause you're gonna be pissed if you're raising with 22 preflop and you hit nothing, because you really have nothing unless you get A 3 4 or a 2

Thank you all so much, I have changed my PP play (taking in all your advice) and have had great success. Even beneficial in variety game. Played a HORSE freeroll (second time I've played) 2400 - out 13th woot woot won $2 LOL
Keep the good advice coming and thanks again :-)

Congrats on the 13th. place LadyT out of 2400. thats great,, Pocket pairs, Mmmmm, small pp`s 9`s and below to me, are only good if you can get in the pot cheap, if theres a raise in front of you i would fold them, i love getting small pp`s in the SB or BB, its usually cheap getting in the pot and hoping to get a set or better, i once had 6 6 in the BB and got in just by checking and the flop came 6 6 4,, ill never forget it, what a thrill,so everyone checked and so did i, went that way all the way through, on the river i bet $ 100., everybody folded,lol, didnt make nothing on them,lol, was hoping someone would catch something, but that wasnt the case, lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,buck: cool:

Great story Buck, Thanks :-)

You can play your pocket pairs in 2 ways imo.
The first is to limp in and see what the borad brings. If you hit the set, lead out with some bets.
Second is to raise like 5 times the BB. To be sure you don't get more opponents than one.
Than if you hit your set lead out with some bets, the same as the limp situation.
If you don't hit you set, make a small bet to see how your cards are agains the hand of your opponent.
If he raises or is the first one in action and he best, just fold it. Most times your beat and you just have 2 outs.

i'll play a low end pp if i can check or see the flop cheap....might take a small raise if i got kk or aa.... and from there if i flop 3 of a kind or better great...but u still have to play the table.

To me, how you play these is all depending on the situation (pot odds, implied odds, table position)

In general, I think it is almost always appropriate to limp in with 77 or worse unless the action has been folded to you and you are in late position. In that circumstance, I think that it would be appropriate to try and take the pot down on the spot, rather than risk conflict where you likely would be beat. Any other situation though, it is best to limp to an unopened pot or possibly call a small raise if there aren't any other callers.

Post flop play is equally important. If you hit a board that is not immediately threatening to your hand (no over cards), then you have to make about a half pot sized continuation bet. If you get a caller, you would have to consider the preflop action before making any further decisions. But more likely than not, you are not up against a high pocket pair, or even ace high in this case, as a high pocket pair would raise here to eliminate the draw, and the bet is too high for an ace high hand to call. So when an ace hits on the turn, that probably is one of the best cards in the deck for you, as it isn't likely to have helped your opponent who is either on a draw or connected on the board with a hand lower than your pocket pair. So I would make another half pot sized bet here, and do it with confidence because chances are you are still way ahead in the hand.

This is such a tough question that even some of the pros cannot answer. Low pairs is easier to decide. I wouldnt raise unless I was down to the final 3 or 4. Call with a low pair and hope to set up on the flop and if you dont you get away with minimal damage. Then the hardest pocket pairs to fold are defintetly the 88 99 TT and we all know how hard JJ is to play. I mean if the flop comes A 2 4 and you raised preflop you are putting your opponent on either a bigger pair or an A so what do you do? Good question but all I have to say is DONT BE A PUSH AROUND. checking after raising and continuation bettting is telling your opponent I give up No ace over here and they take down the pot. So even if its just small bets. Keep betting. Hope ive been of help!

If you can isolate someone pre-flop, then a push will maximize your pairs value.

A risky move, but if you're on the rail....... Your odds against any two random cards are quite reasonable.


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i got 55 and just limp in to c the flop. it came K5K checked it then there was a little bet and i just called then a 7 on the turn i checked and there was a all in call he had 77, do u think i should of push on the flop in stead of on the giving a free card? did i play it right and was i just realy unlucky or wot ?? i guss it would depend if he would of folded his 77 or call my all in postflop??? i just need to know if iam playing my cards wrong coz it keeps happing to me one or two outs and they hit it its so painful lol

Every time I get a chance I will limp with low pocket pairs.. Especially on early position.. But when I am really a short stack I will go all in for sure I mean pre flop....

If I have a small pair, at a full table, out of position, I like to limp, see a cheap flop, and hope for trips on the flop to take control of the hand. If I have position, I like a 3x raise and see how the rest of the table reacts. If the flop looks like it destroyed me, I can get out of the hand and still have respectable chips left.

I feel your pain I have had a lot of similar circumstances. I really don't know what is right or wrong as I am learning too.

I do know I have started really pausing when I see a pretty hand and someone pushes. I used to knee jerk call and now I have saved my ass a lot by folding.

I personally would have shoved after the flop. They might have folded thinking you had a king. If they called anyway, well your still cooked but as they say "That's Poker" and you would have had the satisfaction of making them make the decision to call.
Best of Luck to you


Thank you all for the great advice on Pocket Pair I truly have learned a lot and my game is better for it.

I like to limp or small raise it's worth it if you hit trips. My favorite hand is pocket sevens. Seem to hit trips alot with them.Good luck on and off the felts.

Yeah, or worse for me. A higher pair on the board.

Suddenly that a boat doesn't look quite so good.


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