Thanks to the mods and other powers-that-be to allow this thread to exist and become sticky!

The purpose of this thread is:

1) For all players playing 50nl to keep an archive of their questions/requests

2) To build an archive for this playing limit so future CardsChat players can look through the work already done

3) To help increase the skill and knowledge of players playing 50nl NL either 6max or Full Ring

There are some rules ... well 1 "main" rule:

1) We will not post Hand Histories or publicly share player databases. That's not allowed and we don't want CardsChat to get into any trouble.

2) Keep the Hand Analysis and Video posts to those respective sections on the site. However you can reference to them when posting about your 50nl Progress.

3) If you are *NOT* playing 50nl and are playing a lower level or not for cash, you are encouraged to read and learn but not to make general posts for help (there are other places to do that in the Learning Poker thread).

So here's what we can do...

1) Discuss your progress. Talk about your overall feel for this limit, what players do and don't do, and best practices (for example: 3betting with position in 50nl is very profitable because...)

2) Request sweat sessions ... we will use Skype and Mikogo to do this.

3) Other "stuff" of the sort.

That said, lets crush 50nl and get ourselves to 100nl in no time Hopefully this serves as a good tool and archive for people playing this level.

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

2) Keep the Hand Analysis and Video posts to those respective sections on the site. However you can reference to them when posting about your 50nl Progress.

So we can post the HH or video in the HA or Video sections and then post a link to its thread here, correct?

YAY, nl$50 is going to be shortlived for me. But I will get the ball rolling with some sweat sessions.

I can do Monday's and Wednesday's from 1EST-5EST, without any problem while the wife is at college. Any other times can be done with some notice no later than 6EST, I'd perfer a max of 4 tables but I can do more or less. I've done sweat sessions with Chuckt/4Dogs and a few others here. Either way suits me, if you'd perfer to sweat and get a feel and have me talk though hand then thats fine as well. Let me know.

Other things I'd like to see.

- Some HUD setups
- Some ideal TAG/LAG stats, im really graviting towards playing 20/10/8 on FR and im unsure if i should transfer to 6 max.
- Being really up to date on things like light 3 bets/floats/and the WAWB concepts for a basic start.
- Being really open-minded and making sure we convert most hands if possible.
- Allowing aspiring nl$25 and more experienced players to participate in some sweat sessions.

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

That said, lets crush 50nl and get ourselves to 100nl in no time

^^^^^^

When you asked about the 50nl learning group i told you i was on the verge of moving up. And that's what I did last weekend. Should still be playing a mix of 50nl and 100nl for a couple of weeks, though.

I'll look at videos and HA forum but can't commit to sweats and stuff like that. I actually think that i'm spending too much time analyzing and too little playing already. So my goal right now is play more, sweat less.

Originally Posted by tenbob

YAY, nl$50 is going to be shortlived for me.

After last night... you moving down?

I watched TB some. He kept getting in good (K/K vs Q/Q, etc.) and losing. What's the trick to making your good hands hold up?

As for myself...
I started playing $2NL 6-max and progressed to $25NL 6-max before deciding to try out FR because "everyone else was doing it." It worked OK, but I got bored quickly and never had the same win rate. My boredom lead to some questionable moves, though they were probably fine 6-max moves.

I was rolled for $50NL so I moved to that. I was down 5 buy-ins pretty quickly. It was frustrating in that every bluff was called and every good hand was folded to. I thought I was way outclassed.
Eventually my luck changed and I determined that I was just going though a cold spell. I ended up with a 1 buy-in profit overall, before hitting another cold spell and getting down a few more buy-ins.

So I quit and moved back to $25NL FR, where I did really well (moving down really helped my game. It was surprising easy.) before I got complacent and started to just break even.

I switched back to $25NL 6-max and forgot how much more I enjoyed that. Yeah, winning at a decent rate helped, but moving down seemed to really help my game.

Now I'm experimenting with $50NL 6-max, and don't see any significant difference between that and $25NL 6-max. I'm only playing one table at a time, and getting pretty lucky, so my win rate is significantly higher than what I normally have at $25.

I don't consider myself a $50NL regular yet, but if all goes well I will be pretty soon. So I'm looking forward to anything I can glean from this thread.

One thing about 50nl. I don't know if others have experienced that, but as far as i'm concerned, i find it very significantly easier to beat at PokerStars than at Full Tilt Poker.

Let me illustrate that with my 50nl graphs on both sites. Winning 11BB/100 on PokerStars (bottom), more or less breaking-even on Full Tilt Poker (top).

Here is the current videos posted to CardsChat for 50nl Play (both fullring and 6max):

August 31, 08: bw07507 4tables of 50nl 6max: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/bw07507...-again-125890/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/bw07507-4-tables-50nl-6max-again-125890/)

August 10, 08: icemonkey9 4tables 50nl sweated by MrSticker: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/icemonk...-210mb-129982/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/icemonkey9-plays-50nl-mr-sticker-sweat-45mins-210mb-129982/)

August 29, 08: bw07507 4tabling 50nl: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/bw07507...ession-125679/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/bw07507-4-table-50nl-session-125679/)

July 11, 08: bw07507 sweated by icemonkey9: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/50nl-6-...w07507-118708/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/50nl-6-table-fullring-nlhe-icemonkey9-sweats-bw07507-118708/)

May 7, 08 : bw07507 4tabling 50nl 6max: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/video-b...l-6max-113107/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/video-bw07507-4-tabling-50nl-6max-113107/)

April 1, 08: Zachvac sweated by ChuckTs 50nl: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/me-swea...0nl-fr-109891/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/me-sweating-zach-playing-50nl-fr-109891/)

March 31, 08 : ChuckTs sweated by Tenbob 50nl: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/tenbob-...l-ring-109782/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/tenbob-sweats-chuckts-playing-50nl-full-ring-109782/)

March 25, 08: ChuckTs 50nl 6max: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/50nl-6-max-session-109302/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/50nl-6-max-session-109302/)

Feb 22, 08: ChuckTs Hand Analysis of bw07507 50nl: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/analysi...ession-106027/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/analysis-bw-s-50nl-session-106027/)

Jan 13, 08 : ChuckTs 8Tabling 50nl: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/8-tabli...-again-102523/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/8-tabling-50nl-again-102523/)

Jan 6, 08 : ChuckTs 50nl 8tabling: http://www.cardschat.com/f53/8-tabling-50nl-102017/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/8-tabling-50nl-102017/)

I put a thread about my graph in Poker General to get more hits. I had some questions, too. Take a look:

My Latest Cash Graph - WTF?

why move up so fast,when you making a profit at a level.stay stay stay build build build.........

Originally Posted by drunkinirishlad

why move up so fast,when you making a profit at a level.stay stay stay build build build.........

At what point do you suggest moving up?

Interesting idea ice. I'm kind of inspired to put out a 50NL FR video. I feel I've progressed a lot since my last 50NL video.

So it takes 20K or so hands playing nl$50 FR to make gold star. Sick

If anyone wants to do a sweat session tomorrow evening (from 2PM est onwards shhot me off a PM)

Edit : Dunno if we could possibly do a session on skype with several ppl on, might be an idea.

Originally Posted by tenbob

So it takes 20K or so hands playing nl$50 FR to make gold star. Sick

If anyone wants to do a sweat session tomorrow evening (from 2PM est onwards shhot me off a PM)

Edit : Dunno if we could possibly do a session on skype with several ppl on, might be an idea.

Skype conference call looks do-able:

Support Help

90% chance to count me in on Sat. Have to see what the home crew is up to, but looks good so far..

Alright ... I've spend about 30k hands at 50nl, and here are some things that I've learned for those of you that are just getting or new to the limit. These are just "pearls of wisdom" that are randomly coming into my head for 50nl FULL RING.

- Out of all the players I have seen at this level, I only respect 2 other regulars, who both play a nitty 12/10 TAGish game and have shown a profit. Many of the other regulars I don't think are very good and tend to play a 17/8 game which means they either are calling too much preflop or not raising enough preflop.

- Occasionally you'll see a supernova sit at a 50nl table. Don't be intimidated. The three that I regularly see at the tables are all terrible.

- You will find a few decent shortstackers that buy in for the minimum $10. These people are the scum of the Earth. They typically stack with AJ or better, and pocket Jacks or better. That's a real good solid definition of their shove range preflop.

- a preflop 4 bet has meant either KK or AA from a fullstacked player (meaning they bought in for $50). In all those hands I have yet to see someone 4bet or 4bet-shove with AK or QQ.

- People cower and run in fear from a 3bet in position preflop. It's a great way to snatch those stealy people sitting in the cutoff seats.

- During "peak" house the tables usually have at least 2 or 3 complete fish with stats like 78/20 or 38/0 who are begging you to take their money. Do it, and don't feel bad. Make sure to keep the game friendly so they come back again for more

- A min-raise from the blinds as a 3bet has usually meant a huge hand (QQ to AA)

- As usually do all the right things ... make sure your betting sizing is correct, don't slowplay, be aggressive post flop.

The regs are incredibly exploitable, a lot of them play so tight its like playing them with their cards turned face up.

Almost 80K hands, almost all playing an 18/8 style

6.64ptbb/100

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

Alright ... I've spend about 30k hands at 50nl, and here are some things that I've learned for those of you that are just getting or new to the limit. These are just "pearls of wisdom" that are randomly coming into my head for 50nl FULL RING.

- Out of all the players I have seen at this level, I only respect 2 other regulars, who both play a nitty 12/10 TAGish game and have shown a profit. Many of the other regulars I don't think are very good and tend to play a 17/8 game which means they either are calling too much preflop or not raising enough preflop.

- Occasionally you'll see a supernova sit at a 50nl table. Don't be intimidated. The three that I regularly see at the tables are all terrible.

- You will find a few decent shortstackers that buy in for the minimum $10. These people are the scum of the Earth. They typically stack with AJ or better, and pocket Jacks or better. That's a real good solid definition of their shove range preflop.

- a preflop 4 bet has meant either KK or AA from a fullstacked player (meaning they bought in for $50). In all those hands I have yet to see someone 4bet or 4bet-shove with AK or QQ.

- People cower and run in fear from a 3bet in position preflop. It's a great way to snatch those stealy people sitting in the cutoff seats.

- During "peak" house the tables usually have at least 2 or 3 complete fish with stats like 78/20 or 38/0 who are begging you to take their money. Do it, and don't feel bad. Make sure to keep the game friendly so they come back again for more

- A min-raise from the blinds as a 3bet has usually meant a huge hand (QQ to AA)

- As usually do all the right things ... make sure your betting sizing is correct, don't slowplay, be aggressive post flop.

This is an awesome list here Ice, I think I will copy this for future refrence

So since I've logged about 10k hands now at 50NL, I've come across this situation where people love to min raise the river after I am in a clear bet/fold situation. Is this like ever anything other than 2pair or better? Because with the min raise, I'm priced in to call for most of my hands that I'm vbetting, except for the fact that usually I have 0 equity on the river.

If you see me min-raise you on the river, don't call, I'm value-towning you. It means I know I have you beat, by far, and am trying to extract the absolute most I can that I know you *have* to call.

However, if I see a donk do this, I usually call, as it's a bad bad bad bluff attempt. It would be highly player-contingent.

i think this thread may be relevant to 50nl

http://www.cardschat.com/f11/move-be...59/#post988958

i have a question. i have been playing 50nl for about 2 weeks. i was mainly tourney playin b4 this.. i feel comfortable with it for the most part, and i wanna move up before too long. my question is how many max buyins should i have before i should consider moving up in stakes? i should say how many max buyins at the next level. thanks.

hi guys ,new to this forum and saw this thread ,i think its great that advanced players take the time to teach and hope that the teachers reap some karmic reward ,well done guys , err by the way im new to the lingo on here can someone explain what 50NL is ,is it a cash game etc? please excuse my ignorance!

Originally Posted by ythelongface

i have a question. i have been playing 50nl for about 2 weeks. i was mainly tourney playin b4 this.. i feel comfortable with it for the most part, and i wanna move up before too long. my question is how many max buyins should i have before i should consider moving up in stakes? i should say how many max buyins at the next level. thanks.

Kinda standard Bank roll managment stuff. The rule of thumb is to have 20 full buyins for the level your playing. So to be playing nl$100 you would need a total of $2,000. This however is very thin, and does not allow for a downswing, (it is considered an unprotected bankroll). I had a 20buyin downswing last month, so its not all that uncommon. It is better to be playing with a protected roll so that you can weather a downswing. The rule I personally use is 35BI to move up, leaving me with a 5buyin cushion for moving down to rebuild. Its very player dependant, but I know a lot of members on here will not move up until they have over 50 buyins for the next level.

Edit : How many hands have you played in your 2 weeks ? Even if you have been winning at a decent rate, I would consider playing nl$50 for a little longer than 2 weeks.

Originally Posted by ythelongface

i have a question. i have been playing 50nl for about 2 weeks. i was mainly tourney playin b4 this.. i feel comfortable with it for the most part, and i wanna move up before too long. my question is how many max buyins should i have before i should consider moving up in stakes? i should say how many max buyins at the next level. thanks.

This is very personal type of thing, by that I mean how risk averse you are, how you cope with d/swongs etc. There are some general guidelines and they would be:

Are you winning at your current level

Do you have a significant hand sample at your current level

Do you have at least ~25 buy ins at the level you wish to move up

FWIW, you can take shots at the next level to see how you feel and if you need to make any adjustments. But have some sort of 'move up/move down' strategy in place. So if you lose x amount of buy ins, then move down until yo feel comfortable at that level.

Originally Posted by jumping jack flash

hi guys ,new to this forum and saw this thread ,i think its great that advanced players take the time to teach and hope that the teachers reap some karmic reward ,well done guys , err by the way im new to the lingo on here can someone explain what 50NL is ,is it a cash game etc? please excuse my ignorance!

50nl means 25c/50c and is usually the max buy in for that level (100bb's) in cash games. So 25nl is 10c/25c ans 200nl is $1/$2 blinds.

Originally Posted by jumping jack flash

hi guys ,new to this forum and saw this thread ,i think its great that advanced players take the time to teach and hope that the teachers reap some karmic reward ,well done guys , err by the way im new to the lingo on here can someone explain what 50NL is ,is it a cash game etc? please excuse my ignorance!

it is a cash game at the 25c/50c limit. to know the limits people are talking about when they use the XXNL format, just divide the XX by 100 and that's the upper limit.

ty for the responses. i have logged about 2-3k hands, and feel comfortable, but i didnt wanna move up to soon and get clobbered by variance. im up to about 300 at this point, so looks like i have a good ways to go. i do feel pretty relaxed at this level though. i have been playing 6 max for the most part. i have to say in the past, i played for fun mostly, but im lookin to get more serious. i have no illusions about being the next wsop winner or anything, but i know i can make some decent money.

I realize I'm bumping an old thread, but its stickied, and I wanted to hear how my fellow 50NL players are doing. I've been on a huge downswing lately as I'm trying to incorporate using a HUD while I play, and I've found that I rely on the HUD too much. Instead of making obvious calls/folds that I feel are right, I check the stats on the HUD and go with those and they tend to get me in trouble. I'm having problems playing my game while incorporating those stats. Do you guys all play with a HUD at 50NL? What stats do you find useful to use on the HUD?

Wes are you sure you are using your HUD right? Or perhaps you are reading too much into stats when you have much too small a sample?

Chances are if you have anything less than 300 hands on a guy the HUD really shouldn't be relied upon.

At 6max my impression this month was that a lot of players simply nut peddle and nobody really handles 3bets well.

Yeah Since this post I've changed up a few things in my game and its worked nicely. I haven't put in the volume at FT like I did last month, but I definately fixed some holes in my game. This weekend I'm going to try and play a couple thousand hands and then re-post on a previous thread of mine of how I am doing. Belgo and Feitr helped me fix a few leaks and it has definately helped.

Oh and the HUD thing....what I meant was like people who had an ATS of like 60 I would 3-bet them or something and then they would go all-in and I would be stuck as to what to do. I play FR.

Well the ATS and the Fold to 3bet are 2 different stats, both of which i have in my HUD. A lot of shortstackers will have the 50+ ATS and just shove against a 3bet a lot, which is why they suck.

Can somebody sweat me this Saturday? I'm new to this so I'm not sure how it works.

Thanks

Well try to be a little bit more active here at CC ... I know you just joined, but obviously (speaking personally) we'll be more inclined to sweat someone who looks to be a promising member of our community.

Clearly Saturday didn't work but I am sure a few of us might be around in the coming weeks to figure it out.

I understand. Thanks for the response.

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

Alright ... I've spend about 30k hands at 50nl, and here are some things that I've learned for those of you that are just getting or new to the limit. These are just "pearls of wisdom" that are randomly coming into my head for 50nl FULL RING.

- Out of all the players I have seen at this level, I only respect 2 other regulars, who both play a nitty 12/10 TAGish game and have shown a profit. Many of the other regulars I don't think are very good and tend to play a 17/8 game which means they either are calling too much preflop or not raising enough preflop.

- Occasionally you'll see a supernova sit at a 50nl table. Don't be intimidated. The three that I regularly see at the tables are all terrible.

- You will find a few decent shortstackers that buy in for the minimum $10. These people are the scum of the Earth. They typically stack with AJ or better, and pocket Jacks or better. That's a real good solid definition of their shove range preflop.

- a preflop 4 bet has meant either KK or AA from a fullstacked player (meaning they bought in for $50). In all those hands I have yet to see someone 4bet or 4bet-shove with AK or QQ.

- People cower and run in fear from a 3bet in position preflop. It's a great way to snatch those stealy people sitting in the cutoff seats.

- During "peak" house the tables usually have at least 2 or 3 complete fish with stats like 78/20 or 38/0 who are begging you to take their money. Do it, and don't feel bad. Make sure to keep the game friendly so they come back again for more

- A min-raise from the blinds as a 3bet has usually meant a huge hand (QQ to AA)

- As usually do all the right things ... make sure your betting sizing is correct, don't slowplay, be aggressive post flop.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here except the fact that you say people don't 4bet shove preflop with AK and Q's, which I have definitely seen. Pretty much spot on with everything, well said.

These look like some decent graphs keep up the good work !