Need help w/ Razz & Badugi

I'm completely new to both Razz & Badugi, and I need clarification as to what constitutes a winning hand. I know suit doesn't matter in Razz so which is the winning hand?...A,2,4,5,8 or A,3,4,5,7...Is it the first because A,2 is lower than A,3?...or the second because A-7 is a smaller range than A-8? Help Please...{ I assume the answer to this will also apply to Badugi}

$nidely

the second hand is the winner in your example

The easiest way is to compare the hands starting with the highest card first.

SO:

A2357

is better than A2457

7=7
5=5
3>4 so the hand with the 3 wins

in Razz, it might be easier to read those hands as 7532A vs 8542A, and the lowest hand is more easily detectable. Add in Effexors description, and it will help.

Badugi isn't played at enough sites for there to be many experts here, I seem to remember that you don't want a straight, and you don't want a flush. I could be totally wrong about that though, it has been many months since I played badugi.

While both are lowball games, Razz and Badugi hand rankings are completely unrelated.

Razz works on the same ranking system as ace-to-five draw, whereby the lowest five-card hand wins, and straights and flushes are ignored. So the nut hand in Razz is 5432A, and rankings go from the highest card down, so 76543

Badugi works on a completely different system of its own and is, all things considered, an evil bastard of a game.

For starters, you've only got a maximum of four cards in your hand. Pairs and cards of the same suit count against you, but 'straights' don't.

So the nut hand in Badugi is A234, all different suits.

After that, it gets confusing. If you end up with a pair in your hand (4478, for example), you have to discard one of the paired cards and you only get to play a three-card hand (478, in that example).

If you end up with two cards of the same suit in your hand (Ah3d7s9h), you have to discard one of the suited cards (in that example, you'd discard the 9h because it's highest, and play Ah3d7s).

If your hand is double-suited (Ah3d7h9d) or you have two pairs (AA77) you have to discard two cards.

A made four-card hand, beats any three-card hand, and a made three-card hand beats any two-card hand. When two players have the same number of cards in their hand, then they compare them on rank (so KQJT unsuited would beat A23, but lose to KQJ9 unsuited).

Since this is probably clear as mud, here's a slightly better explanation, with pictures: Badugi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Razz Q has been answered, Badugi is a low ball game where the 4 lowest unsuited cards win, eg, 2c 6s 10h Qc beats Ac 2s 3c 4c, the 2nd hand is only a 3 hand badugi because of the 2nd club card, 4 unsuited cards of any denomination is a huge hand, as long as they are not paired, a paired hand unsuited is only a 3 card hand.

Thank you all for your quick responses. I thought this was probably the answer, but wasn't sure. I'm pretty sure that with Badugi {once you factor in that pairs and same suits don't count} the hand ranking would be the same. I read a good page that explains Badugi fairly clearly when I played my first freeroll and if I can find it again, I'll post it. Poker.com has a Badugi freeroll everyday and I've read that Doyle's Room is also good for Badugi.

Thanks again

$nidely

I found the page on Badugi


Poker Rules - Badugi Poker
Badugi Poker is currently taking the poker world by storm - A triple draw, low hand, four card game it's everything texas holdem isn't - other than a great poker variation.

Badugi betting variations

Limit Badugi - Betting is limited in each game & each round of betting. Maximum of four bets, which includes one bet, and three raises are for each betting round per player in Limit games.

Half Pot Limit Badugi - Bet up to half of what is in the pot.

Pot Limit Badugi - Bet up to what is in the pot.

Badugi hand rankings

Badugi is a lowest hand wins poker game. A hand is made up of up to 4 cards, none of them the same suit or rank. Aces counting low.

eg. Ah, 2d, 3s, 4c which is the best possible Badugi hand.

Any 4 card hand with one card of each suit is known as a " Badugi " hand. The lowest badugi hand beats a higher badugi hand.

So 2h, 3c, 4s, 5d badugi would beat 2c, 4h, 6d, 7s badugi.

In badugi the suits do not have any value or rank over each other.

Pairs in badugi

If you hold a pair in badugi one of the paired cards isn't counted.

So Ah, 5d, Js, Jc would become Ah, 5d, Js this is a three card hand and ranks lower than any 4 card badugi hand.

Or 5h, Js, Jc, Jd would become 5h, Js which is a two card hand beaten by any 3 card hand or full badugi hand.

Suited cards in badugi

If you hold two or more cards of the same suit then the higher cards are not counted and not used to make up your hand.

So Ah, 3c, 6s, Ks would become Ah, 3c, 6s using the lowest of the suited cards to make the best 3 card hand from it.

Paired and suited hands

You may be dealt a hand with both pairs and suited cards - very weak and you would hope to have improved by the showdown your potential hand can be worked out accordingly

eg. Qh, Qc, 8c, Js would be Qh, 8c, Js a three card hand without the pair or the matching suited cards.

Double suited hands

These are about the worst starting hands possible
eg. Jh, Jc, 8c, 8h which would be Jh, 8c

The 72off of badugi

The worst possible but very unlikely starting hand would be quads. And the Texas Holdem 72 off equivalent in badugi would be Kh, Kc, Ks, Kd which would be a one card hand of any one of your 4 kings.

Betting & drawing rounds in Badugi

Played in the same way as holdem with a button and a small and big blind.

1st round betting and drawing

Each player is dealt 4 cards, then there is a first round of betting based on these cards. The 1st round uses the lower stake (like limit holdem), Checking, betting and raising is the same.

Players can then draw zero to four cards (clock-wise from the dealer button). This give the player the opportunity to improve their hand or can stand pat without any changes.

2nd round betting and drawing

Again another round of betting (starting with the active player to the left of dealer) based on the strength of players hands after the 1st change. Still at the lower stake.

And then another draw of zero to four cards for each active player.

3rd & 4th rounds of betting and drawing

Exactly the same as previous round only using the higher stakes.

By the 3rd round where necessary re-shuffle the deck complete with discards in order to complete drawing rounds

The showdown

After the final round of betting the winner is determined and players’ cards are shown. The player’s whose last bet is called, if there is one, shows first. If there is no last aggressor, showdown begins from the first player holding cards, clockwise from the dealer button. As hands are shown players with losing hands are allowed to muck their hand if they choose (the same as holdem).

Order best to worst - Badugi, 3 cards, 2 cards, 1 card.

Split pots and side pots are played in the same way as Holdem.

This page answered all my questions on Badugi except for the one answered on this forum....If anyone is interested

$nidely

The easiest way to read low hands is to read them like a number from the biggest number down.
7543A = 75431
95432 = 95432

7543A beats 95432