GL Mo Fo's !!

sigh
with the mofos again..

I'm back on grinding 2nl 6max with a $7 BR.

Back to our discussion about value betting the river bigger.

Most of you guys seriously give your opponents WAY WAY WAY WAY too much credit. Every time you start thinking that your opponents go through the same thought process as you, please go read the "Online poker is rigged" thread to see how most of your opponents are going to be thinking about poker.

99% of people you face in the micros are not going to be thinking about ranges, or what certain lines mean, or figure out what different bet sizes mean. They go "I haz pair? I call" and that's the extent of it. The vast majority of the time, it will not matter if you bet 1/2pot, 2/3 pot, or 1.5x pot. If they are going to call 1/2pot, they probably would have called at least a full pot bet.

River Value > Turn Value > Flop value. Why? Well because if you miss value on the flop, you have two streets to make up for it. So making your flop bets smaller is ok, because even if you miss some value, you can make it up on later streets with larger bets. Alternatively, missing value on the river is a disaster.

4th set under set hand tonight I sure hope may gets better.... this last 7k hands has been absolutely miserable.....impossible to win... I was all pumped after reading ice's 2k post too

Ice's coolerness obviously rubbed off then.

I'm ready to dive back into the cash games this month. I've got a newly boosted bankroll, so I'll be grinding 25NL for as long as it takes.

I've got solid winrates at 2NL, 5NL, and 10NL, but I'm still below break-even after 25K hands at 25NL. This is the month I solve the mystery of 25NL.

Nice start to things...

PokerStars Game #27683391554: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2009/04/30 20:14:09 PT [2009/04/30 23:14:09 ET]
Table 'Klio IX' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: TRM_SHRiMP ($3.06 in chips)
Seat 2: Odyssee ´01 ($2.02 in chips)
Seat 3: leostarspkr ($3.18 in chips)
Seat 4: mrbigstuff67 ($1.74 in chips)
Seat 5: AceLazlow ($1.14 in chips)
Seat 6: tres420 ($0.47 in chips)
mrbigstuff67: posts small blind $0.01
AceLazlow: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [9s 9c]
tres420: calls $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.08 to $0.10
Odyssee ´01: folds
leostarspkr: calls $0.10
mrbigstuff67: calls $0.09
AceLazlow: folds
tres420: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd 9d As]
mrbigstuff67: checks
TRM_SHRiMP: bets $0.13
leostarspkr: calls $0.13
mrbigstuff67: calls $0.13
*** TURN *** [Qd 9d As] 7♠
mrbigstuff67: checks
TRM_SHRiMP: bets $0.73
leostarspkr: raises $2.22 to $2.95 and is all-in
mrbigstuff67: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: calls $2.10 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.12) returned to leostarspkr
*** RIVER *** [Qd 9d As 7s] 9♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TRM_SHRiMP: shows [9s 9c] (four of a kind, Nines)
leostarspkr: mucks hand
TRM_SHRiMP said, "wow."
TRM_SHRiMP collected $6.09 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.39 | Rake $0.30
Board [Qd 9d As 7s 9h]
Seat 1: TRM_SHRiMP showed [9s 9c] and won ($6.09) with four of a kind, Nines
Seat 2: Odyssee ´01 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: leostarspkr (button) mucked [Ah 5c]
Seat 4: mrbigstuff67 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: AceLazlow (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: tres420 folded before Flop

Bet bigger on that flop Philthy. There is a FD on board and the Aces aren't folding. At least make it .20 imo.

anyone wanna bet on if Jake will still make each months micro thread when hes playing 5knl?

Put C9 on a Range!

That thread is cool. And DSVW's post about river betting > *.

Blech. Series of bad beats at the end turned my already crappy month to shit. I know it's an incredibly small sample size, and we're not supposed to care about our all-in ev, but boy was I ready for this month to end.

Extra beat: You think this volume is small? This was a record number of hands for me, due to my wife taking the kids to the grandparents for spring break, while I stayed because of work, and put in a lot more time at the tables than normal.

Everyone has their personal pace, and hand quotas per month. For such a small sample size I would attribute a lot of that to variance.

Example: I clear about 2-3k hands a day and have been -82.40 for the past 3 days operating at a decent EV over almost 8k hands now. It's just part of the game hang in there.

Also if your looking to increase hands than obv multi-table more

Here's an actual size screen shot of my table layout. I have these all stacked, usually 14+ at a time. Any comments would be appreciated.

To further illustrate my point about river bet sizing, I had an interesting situation come up during an earlier session.

It was a limped pot, 2 limpers and I was in the BB with 76. The board made a wheel as it was checked down giving me the nuts. There's 35c in the pot and we all have full stacks behind. I can expect to get at least one call 100% of the time if I just bet the pot. But if I shove, I only have to get called like 4% of the time to make it a more profitable play. One of them is going to be holding a 6 much more often than that and is in all likelihood going to call me with it and sometimes someone will just call and play the board because fish are stupid like that.

Obviously this is an extreme example, but it proves the point I say. In most cases, a bigger bet isn't going to deter people from calling often enough to make it less profitable than a smaller bet.

And ^^^^ lol@xxwwilxlyssxx I remember that guy from when I was at 2nl. God he is awful.

Cross posted from main thread:

Stoxpoker members:

Through trulyfreepokertraining, I qualified for a whole WEEK of membership to Stox, through 5/8. With my real life, this is all the volume I'm able to put in. Looking for some video recommendations. I play 25NL FR. I'm pretty comfortable with my preflop game, I run at 14/10, but I fold too much postflop and give opponents too much credit. In need a lot of help in that area.

Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by switch0723

anyone wanna bet on if Jake will still make each months micro thread when hes playing 5knl?

LOL @ me playing 5knl!!

Yeah I will start this thread if I can its where I grew up as a young micro grinder

Originally Posted by dsvw56

Back to our discussion about value betting the river bigger.

Most of you guys seriously give your opponents WAY WAY WAY WAY too much credit. Every time you start thinking that your opponents go through the same thought process as you, please go read the "Online poker is rigged" thread to see how most of your opponents are going to be thinking about poker.

99% of people you face in the micros are not going to be thinking about ranges, or what certain lines mean, or figure out what different bet sizes mean. They go "I haz pair? I call" and that's the extent of it. The vast majority of the time, it will not matter if you bet 1/2pot, 2/3 pot, or 1.5x pot. If they are going to call 1/2pot, they probably would have called at least a full pot bet.

River Value > Turn Value > Flop value. Why? Well because if you miss value on the flop, you have two streets to make up for it. So making your flop bets smaller is ok, because even if you miss some value, you can make it up on later streets with larger bets. Alternatively, missing value on the river is a disaster.

I agree 100%, also it works when put into practice people will call with alot worse than what I give them credit for. I thought people at 50nl would think in ranges etc etc but obvs the majority don't. I wonder when they do start thinking about it hmm...

Originally Posted by RogueRivered

Here's an actual size screen shot of my table layout. I have these all stacked, usually 14+ at a time. Any comments would be appreciated.

I hope zach, c9, belgo, or one of the others reviews this, but a couple of suggestions (which I hope the experts will override).

Can you type out what stats these all represent, I was able to understand most but not all?

I like fold to 3bet and use it constantly - i keep it right next to 3bet % - and I like to have WTSD available.

How are you using W$WSF?

Limp/fold percentage is awesome - there's a great thread on this somewhere, I think from ChuckTs or FP - anyone know the link off the top of your head? I think I remember Belgo saying it was "shooting fish in a barrel" in the thread?

http://www.pokerstars.com/uk/poker/p...cial/?utm_id=4

May started with my best poker news ever!

My god, april was the most pointless poker month for me in a long while, only got about 12k hands in and even though i ended the month $20 up there was one point where i was at +$100 for the month so in general it sucked.

I had to buy a new laptop today as well b/c my old one was screwed, i've only managed to rescue about 2 months worth of hands as well so pretty much my whole db is gone

Goals for this month are:

- Play ONLY 10nl FR, NO 6MAX!

- Play at least 25k hands.

- Make silver with the new pokerstars thing goin on.

- Clear $60 reload bonus.

Pleas god make may better than april b/c april was the suck

I'm really discouraged right now, I'm to the point right now that I feel like I can't win. The last 11k Hands i've operated at -92.50 at 10NL, just running brutally bad. Then this morning I felt I was finally coming out of it, posted a +3 BI session after 2 hours. I took a break, came back for another session, immediately, had middle set cracked to runner runner boat, AA<KK twice in the first 30 minutes, totally negating my previous session.... At this point it almost feels hopeless to come out of this. I've always been a winning player at both 10NL and 25NL, so frustrating.

Sorry for the rant..

Originally Posted by Caseace48

I'm really discouraged right now, I'm to the point right now that I feel like I can't win. The last 11k Hands i've operated at -92.50 at 10NL, just running brutally bad. Then this morning I felt I was finally coming out of it, posted a +3 BI session after 2 hours. I took a break, came back for another session, immediately, had middle set cracked to runner runner boat, AA<KK twice in the first 30 minutes, totally negating my previous session.... At this point it almost feels hopeless to come out of this. I've always been a winning player at both 10NL and 25NL, so frustrating.

Sorry for the rant..

have you ever been sweated by one of our members?

im sure it'd help see of your maybe messing up in a few spots or they'll say how well your doing and then you'll know this run is nothing but bad varience

edit: is your name casease21 and do you play at ftp?

Originally Posted by slycbnew

Can you type out what stats these all represent, I was able to understand most but not all?

Here is a breakdown of the stats. I should color code these but haven't gotten around to figuring out how they should look.

Originally Posted by RogueRivered

Here is a breakdown of the stats. I should color code these but haven't gotten around to figuring out how they should look.

Ah, then the only valid suggestion I had was limp/fold - use it like folds BB to a steal...

Originally Posted by RogueRivered

Here is a breakdown of the stats. I should color code these but haven't gotten around to figuring out how they should look.

You def can do without W$SD and W$WSF. These stats take AGES to converge and aren't really all that useful when they do. You can probably take out Squeeze% as well since basically no one squeezes light at your stakes, and it's on your Preflop Pop-up anyways if you need to take a glance. Limp-call and Call Open (Cold Call) are two that you might want to add.

Originally Posted by jewboy07

have you ever been sweated by one of our members?

im sure it'd help see of your maybe messing up in a few spots or they'll say how well your doing and then you'll know this run is nothing but bad varience

edit: is your name casease21 and do you play at ftp?

No, my username on there is lukass48. A sweat would probably do me a lot of good. Not sure I have the right software installed for it but if someone is willing to sweat me for a session this weekend I definitely follow instructions well . If not I'll keep plugging along

All the software you need is Skype + Teamviewer (or mikogo if you want to be difficult )

I'd do it but I don't know 6max well..
If anyone else wants a sweat up to 25nl FR (50nl if you want although my help will be somewhat limited) just send me a pm or ask here.
Available all weekend.

I'm generally a FR player, so if your available Sunday about 8 est time, I would love to have you sweat me for 10NL. I'd prefer to do 25NL but I cashed out about 50% of my BR a few months back so been working my back up, 10NL will have to do. I have skype already, i'll work on getting teamviewer installed. I'll PM you my AIM info too. Thanks, hope your available

Good first day. I'm only playing 4-tables, because I'm paying close attention to my game. Up just over a buy-in in 250 hands, so decided to cut it short. Should be good if people keep playing against me like this:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($12.60)
UTG ($31.10)
Hero (MP1) ($24.85)
MP2 ($4.40)
CO ($14.70)
Button ($25.45)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8, 7
1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.85) 5, 5, 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.85) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, CO calls $3.50

River: ($12.85) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO raises to $8.45 (All-In), Hero calls $3.45

Total pot: $29.75 | Rake: $1.45

Originally Posted by PokerVic

Good first day. I'm only playing 4-tables, because I'm paying close attention to my game. Up just over a buy-in in 250 hands, so decided to cut it short. Should be good if people keep playing against me like this:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($12.60)
UTG ($31.10)
Hero (MP1) ($24.85)
MP2 ($4.40)
CO ($14.70)
Button ($25.45)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8, 7
1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.85) 5, 5, 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.85) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, CO calls $3.50

River: ($12.85) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO raises to $8.45 (All-In), Hero calls $3.45

Total pot: $29.75 | Rake: $1.45

pretty sure this call is atrocious on the river. Even the bet is bad. What range are you putting him on besides complete air that your beat? a 4?

like 99% of the time this is a ch/f

After two good sessions in a row, it's time for another shot at 25NL tomorrow night. Hopefully I continue to run like god long enough to at least get a decent foothold there. And I finally managed to get my 10NL winrate out of the crapper and up to a respectable 5PTBB/100.

Officially in the GREEEEEEEN for May. First winning session in 5 days, thank goodness theres light at the end of the tunnel! This 1.7+ BI session felt like I just doubled my roll or something. Only took 12.1k hands to get back on track....*fingers crossed*

Just had to share this joyous occasion sorry!

Last 3 sessions at 2nl 6-max: down 2.5 bis, up 7.5 bis, down 2.5 bis. Biggest losses and biggest win ever. I guess 6-max is swingy. Almost all sessions previously were + or - 1.5 bis. What's going on?

Originally Posted by RogueRivered

Last 3 sessions at 2nl 6-max: down 2.5 bis, up 7.5 bis, down 2.5 bis. Biggest losses and biggest win ever. I guess 6-max is swingy. Almost all sessions previously were + or - 1.5 bis. What's going on?

ummm . . . standardaments?

Originally Posted by dsvw56

ummm . . . standardaments?

This.

I used to get bothered by 1 to 2 buy-in swings. You start to get used to them, plus wayyyyyy worse ones, especially playing 6-max.