LTH new strategy attempt

I usually like to see the flop playing LTH. Last night I tried staying in for the flop with ONLY the "Top 40" opening pocket cards, in 2/4 limit game that was 10 handed.
Result: -200 after about 2-3 hrs of play.
Normally I do very well staying in for the flops w/ all kinds of Gus Hansen type of hands. I suspect that sticking w/"Top 40 Hands" might be better suited for NLTH than Limit, and that this is way too tight of playing for limit games.
What do you have to say on this?

I have to say, "What's LTH?"

Ohhhhhhh, Limit Texas-Hold'them I bet! Are you playing online or live? Either way I think this is a pretty doomed strategy. Online 2/4 limit is pretty tight/aggro which sucks. Live 2/4 is super loose/passive and you should be playing a lot more hands against these guys.

Also, what do you consider the "Top 40" hands? Is this regardless of position and action that occurred before your turn?

If I'm in early position in a standard tight-aggressive table, I'm only playing 10 or 11 hands. {77+, AQo+, AJs+, and maybe KQs}
If I'm at a loose-passive table, I'm playing {22+, ATo+, A9s+, Suited broadways, T9s}

I think you definitely ahave to take table conditions into your preflop hand selection. Blindly sticking to a predetermined hand range is going to limit your success.

TYVM, "Mase", for your reply and advice.
Yes it is limit Tex Hold'em. I guess I should have abbreviated it as "LHE" (I just don't know these forums abbreviations yet).
This "Top 40 List" is from the "Moneymaker" book about his 2003 WSOP win. These pocket cards are ranked as the most "playability" pocket cards into a winning hand. I played them w/ no regard to my position ,nor pre-turn action. The table was tight/aggressive. I'll find the book and list the " T-40". I'm taking your latter two paragraphs to heart and the table. TYVM again for sharing how you play, the considerations and advice !!!
It was a fun experiement and I did learn a lot from it. I was ahead several times too.

Mase, the top 11 hands from the book are: AA,KK,QQ,AKs,JJ,AQs,AK,10-10,
KQs,AJs,A-10s. #12 (9-9) being over #13 (A-Q) was a surprize and must be by a very thin tenths of a %. Another was #34 (A-3s) over #35 (A-6s), making the straight must be the factor on this one.
I would be glad to list them all, if anyone is interested. It sure makes watching poker on TV very exciting to see what some people will raise on or call to play, compared to this 40 list.

P.S.: Mase, I love the Dwan quote to Helmuth you have on your posts, that was one of the best ever episodes of HSP.

This concerns me in any flop game

If you'd like to play limit hold'em, I'd recommend a couple books. The best book I ever read in terms of money it made me is Small Stakes Hold'em. This book is very good at showing you how to beat loose limit games. This would be most $2/$4 games-$4/$8 or $5/$10 live. Much lower stakes online, I'm honestly not even sure how low.

If you're playing online, in the games that are more TAG, then you might want to check out Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, which is more geared toward playing styles that will succeed in this tougher game environment.

Either of these books can teach you a lot about positional play, how action in front of you should be considered, and a multitude of postflop intricacies. If you were only going to read one, I would definitely steer you toward the Small Stakes book, because there is information on playing tighter games as well, but overall it's just a very very solid book on the game. I haven't read HPfAP nearly as thoroughly or recently, but I do know the information in it is still quite good.

I'm open to questions too. I've played quite a bit of limit, so I can likely answer just about anything you might want to know.

Kmixer: tyvm for your "concern". I ran this experiment to get to the flpo w/ these "T-40" pockets just to see how well they would play out ( wouldn't you have like to have been sitting in on this table w/me,lol).

Mase: Awesome !!! TY so VM for putting up the links !!! I read all I could of the text i could get to, in "SSHE". In the chapter "Post Flop Concerns" pgs 145-149, it proved to me that this book will be in my library asap. Very straight forward and easy style of writing for me to grasp. TYVM. Funny, I have "Small Stakes No-Limit" by ed miller on my "to look up list" already and didn't know of the limit book.
Now I'm off to check "HPfAP" link. TYVM. As I learn more I will post more Qs TY.

i see what you are saying with the top 40. but you should be playin atlease the sharks top 80 plays. which includes suited connectors like 9,8 or 5,6. Flush draws like Ax, or Kx are good as well

I think it is fair to say that really there is no "system" as such that makes money. If there was everyone would use it and no one can win.

Any form of poker is reliant on pot odds, etc, but there is a lot more to it than that.

In my opinion, experience is the best `tool` any poker player can have.

The "use only top x hands" is a good foundation, but its what u do, how u do it and when u do it after the decision to enter the pot that is more important.

Just my opinion.

DoTragedy: TYVM. I'm searching this site for a "T-80 List" of opening pocket cards now. Tried yesterday to find one but just didn't get-er-done (my lack of computer skills). There is something like 1362 possible PC combos (if I rememeber right) to expand to T-80 should help me to be able to form a base to be able to trend water w/the sharks...eventually,lol.

Ronaldadio: Tyvm for your opinion. I will get this foundation under me with hard work. I know I'm the "fish" at the tables, my poker face must read like newspaper headlines, you as a entertainer must have a solid poker face (I envey this).The "what,how,and when" is a steep learning curve that I will spend the rest of my poker playing life learning, working on and adjusting. I really enjoy poker and am so glad to have finally found out how much fun all this is even so late in my life ... the continuious learning and the thrill of absolute confusion of what to do on the felt. Poker is and trully has already now enriched my life.

CardsChat is a "Lucky Flop" for me to have drawn into!!! A quantum leap.

Just as online play differs from live play, Limit play differs from NLH play. I agree with having a strong foundation...no matter the game. Limit often = No Fold'em Hold'em so I tend to adhere to the 'top' 25-40 hands, allowing for deviations based on position &/or the other players' tendencies.

Yes, there are 1326 hole card combos but based on relative strength (ie: & have the same value) that can be reduced to 169 combos. Playing J.8off (relative strength ranking = 71 with ~4.1% win rate) doesn't fall within my Max Val Min Risk parameters (unless it happens to be the BB or the button with no multiple raises in front)...apparently it works for some if there's a recommendation to a 'top 80' list?

Bazerk: TYVM. I'm starting to grasp LH and NLH differences... finally,lol, via the hard way ( lots of hands,losing but learning from it). My game as to "Position" and "other players" needs a lot of work. I keep reading and trying out different strategies/concepts ... what a great way to get brain exercise ! I'm starting a reminder/check list to reveiw before, during and after I play. None of this is second nature for me yet, but I'm getting a good hold on the "T-40" finally. My LH game has improved with this alone, and even more so with the blooming buds of awarness of "Position".
I'm playing NLH again too now w/ play money and by expanding to the "T-80" list and fianally understanding alittle bit more about the poker in general, I'm starting to be able to tread water in play $ action. Yes, I have no illustions as to try this for real $$$ at the felt... just a training tool to try to grasp some of the "Science" of NLH. I'll be doing this "training wheels" at NLH in the hope of moving back to the felt one day... far away, w/ earnings from my LH play. To me things don't cross over all that much between LH and NLH. It is humbling to get busted out in NLH so much, lol.
169 actual opening hand combos,... this really helps to see the value of them mixed in w/ positoin and how the others players tend to play. Your reasons for playing J-8 off or not, ahhhh, pure Gold for me. Thank You again for sharing your insight w/ me. The "T-80" list is much better for me to play from, but there is so much more for me to learn as to when and how.

As far as making us know what you're talking about. I'd try saying "Limit Hold'Em" Sometimes I have to double check when people type NLTH and stuff like that. "No later than hour? What the hell is that?" LTH threw me - "Last Time Here?"

I'm not particularly good at Limit poker, however from the experience I do have with it, it seems that a hand that is likely to make the nuts for cheap is a good hand to play. You're always getting pot-odds unless betting gets capped on a small pot, so suited connectors and low pocket pairs have the green light from me. Plus, when these miss, you are ussually getting good enough odds (especiallly HU, when you can check/call one bet) to chase.

I think the fundamental flaw you made was taking strategies intended for No Limit to a Limit table, and if I can say so in a way without offending you, it's like taking a rocket launcher to the airport. You're supposed to take a suitcase, dummy!

While AA is good in any starting hand (except Omaha if your Hole Cards are AAAA frown), 33 can be a much better money maker calling a 3-bet at limit than it can be calling the same action at NL, since you're probably calling 10 BBs at NL or 3 BBs at limit, and if you hit you hit big. And if you miss you can chase cheap or fold.

So hands like 56s go up in value in some situations (unless action is getting capped frequently in multi-way pots, in which case I'd say "get it in there!" and look for a board to hit you big, but that might be a leak in my limit game, as it's far from my area of expertise.

Um... Why am I not playing Limit Poker? OH YA! EVERYBODY GETS TO DRAW FOR CHEAP!!

Right, I totally forgot.