Limping with AA.

There are situations where you might be able to get a little more out of AA by limping than you would if you raised. For instance if you had AA UTG and there is an aggressive button or cut off player that raises a lot to punish limpers. Limping with the intent to three bet might not be a bad idea. But it's also risky. Open limping encourages others to limp be hind you. AA doesn't play will in multi-way pots. So if we do limp with AA, we are hoping someone raises to try and take the pot down uncontested, so we can three bet.

If that doesn't happen, we need to play very cautions the rest of the hand. We will be in a multi-way pot out of position and have no clue where we stand in the hand.

Here is an example of trying to get tricky with AA and then overplaying and having it all blow up in your face.

Full Tilt - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $13.91
BB: $14.91
UTG: $11.43
MP: $10.00
CO: $7.86

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10, MP posts DB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.25) Hero has 5♣ 7♦

fold, MP checks, CO calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.45, 4 players) 8♣ 6♠ 3♠
BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45, fold, fold

Turn: ($1.35, 2 players) 4♥
CO checks, Hero bets $1.10, CO raises to $7.31 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.21

River: ($15.97, 2 players) K♣

Hero shows 5♣ 7♦ (Straight, Eight High)
CO shows A♠ A♣ (One Pair, Aces)
Hero wins $14.91

I had some history with the villain and knew if I hit my straight, he would pay me off. I was also pretty sure he wasn't on a flush draw.

So if you are going to get tricky with AA and try to give your opponents different looks that's fine. However, when your plan back fires, you need to slow down and depending on the board texture, you might need to give up the hand.

Great example TPC! Never limped with AA but have min raised. Personally don't care to give other players a free look and a chance to improve. Question. If the turn had been to this thread.

Yea, nice example for how a micro fish can brutalise a hand. Limp raising AA is almost (hic) always a mistake in a cash game.

In a MTT though, limp raising AA UTG can be an extremly valid play.

Is it really a mistake if you are also limp raising air? I know its quite stupid to do so because you are causing yourself so much stress but if your balancing your range it cant be too horrible but then again, no one at the micros is ever balancing there ranges so my point is mute.

Perhaps it's the vino but you made me giggle here Reads like a "oh never mind" post. But seriously, can you please explain "balancing their ranges". Never heard the term before

Against this villain, no. I knew he would make a huge pot with any pair. He's paid me off when I had AA and he had middle pair. He was a total fish. Against a different player that lead out like that, I might actually raise to try and take the pot down right there. The villain in this hand was a total calling station. So reraising with air wasn't an option.

Agreed, it's a much better play in tournament situations. However, I've noticed at 10nl anyway, that when you limp three bet a lot of villains don't know what to do, and they will flat out of spite or shove a little lighter than they normally would. Like I said though, this isn't a normal line you would take. Because lots of times it can back fire, just like it did in the example I posted. If it does back fire, you just need to keep the pot small, which is hard to do OOP. So you really don't want to limp raise with AA very often.

Agreed, we don't need to worry that much about balancing our ranges at 10nl. But you also practice like you play. It might be something you want to dabble in to get your feet wet, but we wouldn't want to make a habit of it or get carried away with it either. When you start to go this route it's very easy to start spewing and creating huge gaping leaks. Not to mention putting yourself in tough marginal decisions which really aren't necessary.

Basically what we do when we balance our range is we take the same kind of line we would with a monster hand, with a weaker hand. This gives us the opportunity to win pots we normally wouldn't. Also, if we have to slow down and end up showing our weak holding, villain will notice that hey this guy can double barrel or even tipple barrel with nothing. So later when we do have a monster we are more likely to get paid off.

Villain's will remember the times they catch you bluffing, that sticks in their mind, even if you don't bluff that often. So when you do have a monster hand, you are more likely to get paid off.

example: If all you raise UTG with is QQ+, AK after awhile you are pretty predictable. So to balance our range we need to raise UTG with a smaller pair or suited connectors every once in awhile.

I'm sure Marginal will have a way better way of explaining it than I just did.

Utg, you should not limp with aces; raise at least 3 blinds. If anyone reraises you, then you now that your hand is better than his. another reraise by you will probably take down the pot, unless he has a really big pair: aces, kings, queens. In any event, you narrowed the players in the pot to two, where pocket aces are highly favored to win. You wait many hours for aces, why not play them for as much money preflop as possible!!!Sendittoken.....

Very nice explanation. So does a 3 bet light fall into this category? If it goes to showdown and you win/lose? Oh yeah and how about the squeeze?

yeah, basically we going to do the same things with the bottom of our range that we would do with the top of our range, but just way way way less often.

You should not limp with them other than rarely. It is an optional play that you can use once you get to know your table and hope to be tricky. It helps if your table has a lot of LAG players who are raising with a high percentage of hands, so you can expect a raise.

While I agree I want to raise with AA preflop, sometimes you'll take down 1.5 BBs, and you might as well be raising with 6-high for that kind of win.

What's important is once we get a villain showing interest in a pot postflop ini a limped pot with AA, we need to understand there are things that beat us, and it's a gigantic hurdle, because as in the example here, our top pair is drawing dead by the turn, and even if we improve to a set on some boards, we'll be drawing slim by the same street against a lot of potential holdings, none of which we have singled out from the list of possibilities.

The last time I tried limping UTG with AA, there was a straddle in the pot, and I expected the straddle to raise with most holdings to punish limpers. The whole table limped, and the straddle checked, 7 players to a flop with AA. Great. Flop was A93, I bet, UTG+1 raised, folded around, I jammed, he called with 33.

Far from ideal, but the last time I did that was months ago and I wouldn't do it very often, maybe once in twenty hands when I think it may be profitable, but you have to be willing to dump your hand should things not go your way.

A limp/re-raise from EP is super transparent & 'might' be effective vs. a really fishy/spewy mindless-aggro fishtard but personally I think we're better off raising as we typically would.

Not if you are also doing it with the bottom of your range.

I'm actually against limping with AA for the most part. But there is a time and a place for everything is all I'm trying to show. If we decide to take an unconventional route with a hand, and our plan doesn't go as we wanted, we need to be ready to just let it go at times.

PO makes a good point. It can be very transparent.

And if you're limp/raising with the bottom of your range... I can't even comment because I've never tried it before.

Very nice example TPC. I would never limp with AA.

Unless you know someone is going to raise, I would never limp with AA. It's really not a profitable strategy because you cut down on your win percentage. Over time, you're going to lose more chips than you would gain by limping.

PO is correct, but so is OP. Like everything else in poker the specific game situation and your read on your opponents would dictate what is the most positive ev play.

I think what OP was saying (and he did so well) that he does not advocate doing it regularly, but rarely.

I would suggest that if you are going to do it, you should know your opponent first. It works best if the villian have a propensity to raise. If you're just doing it without a strategy, you could get burned pretty bad. Especially if, as the OP indicated, you are not prepared to let it go.

Remember, if it gets limped to the blinds, they can have ANY TWO CARDS. Checked paired flops are pretty scary.

Never limp with AA unless u are at the button or SB and there are no limpers before u. AA is the best heads-up card but when more than 2 players see the flop it is just a flip coin and u will play like hell for the that mistake. Just the other day i saw a limper with AA loosing all his buy-in to another limper with 72 suited from SB. Flop came K27 offsuit and the AA took the beat of his life. Of course u can double up your stack. But when more than 2 persons see the flop chances are that your 2 aces get busted.
There is also another problem with aces in early position when your image is that of an agressive player and more than one persons call your raise.

Obviously you know a lot about poker, so you suggesting this warrants some thought but limping AA (even if your timing is usually perfect and you do it profitably) seems like asking for trouble. There's no need to get this fancy.

Screwing around with your AA profits can be devestating to a winrate, and any potential gain on this play is so low compared to the high risk involved.

Okay, I just thought of a situation where I would limp with pocket Aces, and it has happened to me before, but with QQ instead of AA, so I didn't imediately make the connection. It wasn't until Kuberr said it isn't a good idea unless you KNOW your opponent is going to raise.

So the Bike in LA has a few short buy-in games, and because I was too scared to play the full stack games (which didn't really exist as full stack games yet, but were slightly closer), I played them. They were wild. An 'action table' every time. And with good reason, 1/3 NL with a forced buy-in of $80. See the problem? Good.

So I'm sitting at one of these tables, I've picked up a few pots, and then villain gets shortstacked, tilts, and decides he's going to raise $20 blind every hand. And I'm card dead. I sit there, annoyed as my VPIP goes from ~25% to 0% exactly over about an hour and a half, but that's okay, because I know this guy is going to either go busto and the table won't recover from the dynamic, or I'll get a hand I can call $20 with from my $120 stack...

Folded garbage, garbage, garbage, for ages. Finally I wake up with QQ in MP, villain is the button.

I limp in, he bets $20 blind, of course, as he has every hand for ages. (Mistake coming up, but against a random hand I didn't want to risk a 3-bet causing him to fold when he realized he had garbage, give him a minute to hit something on the flop before he looks at his cards). I call.

Before the flop comes out, he asks me "Do you want to check it down?" And I said "I'm here to play poker, not bingo, play your hand sir."

I check, trying to emulate two overs that missed (even though I'd bet here with AJ+, KQ sometimes), and he bets $60. I raise all-in, he folds.

I would limp have limped with Aces there, too.

Honestly I rarely limp aces. Simply put, you're letting a lot of opponents walk-in cheap into the flop without gaining ANY information about their hands. Sometimes you're gonna get lucky and someone is gonna raise you which we can re-raise to make a bigger profit.. but that hand that you posted is a perfect example that limping aces is dangerous.

I believe it also depends on position, when I know I'm facing less opponents and I know they're super-tight I might limp to see if I can get pay off, but again it's a risk. Sometimes you're holding Aces, you raise and they will call you with trash, hitting 2 pair on the flop, projects,etc, that's when you feel sick losing...

I never limp in with pocket aces...I don;t care if no body calls. if you just limp in and try to trap people alot of the time you will end up on the wrong side of the coin flip

With AA I would have just called on the turn and reevaluate on the river. Could have been up against a set. But now I never limp with AA unless I know for sure that someone is tilting and shoving every hand behind me, like someone described. The last time I tried to be tricky with AA and limped, I let the BB beat me with 25 offsuit. Since then, I always raise preflop.

Seems to me the play to get action and eliminate stragglers is to min-raise or come in with a weak raise that you hope someone three-bets. Then you four-bet them and all the world is spinning on its right axis again.

Limp/3-betting 45s just so that we can also limp/3-bet AA to better effect sounds like the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Yes, when you have the nuts, if you have bluffs in your range, you will get more action. Sounds like all the more reason to raise to me.

I like limp/3-betting in deep stacked cash games *only* as a bluff. As a short stack or in a tournament, it becomes more acceptable, but then again, limping as a short stack also is kinda a giant red flag if people realize you're not a horrible player.

So, in summary, I like limp/3-betting with aces if:

1) Stacks are very shallow.
2) People have no reads on you.
3) There are aggressive players late to act (CO-->BB).

Raise preflop every time with AA no matter what.

Not one example of limping with AA turned out good for me, I have maybe done it a couple of times and horror every time. I allways raise or push with AA.

As i said. AA is the best possible hand when u are heads-up with someone. But if there are more than 2 to see the flop, Aces only get u into trouble and most of the time broke. If an opponent is a maniac in my opinion u have to play some cards from time time and see how he is reacting. If he calls or reraise your raise most of the time u can simply raise with AA cose he will do the same if he has some cards .


Of course i saw experts limping with AA. The best example is a table with Johnny Chang, Howard Letherer and Gus Hansen when Howard and Johnny tryed to trap Gus the same hand , Howard with AA at the button i think and Johnny with AK at the SB. Howard limped,Johnny limped, Gus raised , howard reraised and Johnny went all in. Gus folded, Howard called and he ended up taking Johnny Chang out instead of Gus

BUt they are experts. They know when to fold AA when they see a flop an d the opponent reaction. How many of us will fold AA when they see a flop like 10 7 3 rainbow and the opponent is all in , even if we know our opponent is a reasonable person? I would not. I will go broke if the opponent gets a set.

No thanks. I will never limp in with an AA. They get by too cheap and can upset you with 2 pairs or if 4 players are in the pot it is less than a 50/50 proposition. I'd rather scoop the pot and not see the rest of the cards.

always raise AA pre flop to take out limpers who could build a hand to beat u on pure luck

Meh, this thread is full of fail.

There are countless times I see fish go broke when they stack their AA on a wet multiway board after limping pre. If there are LAGfish at your table, surely you would rather bet to anticipate a 3 bet?! You will have to play the rest of the hand out of position and if you don't get raised pre, you're potentially in big trouble. Also if there are fish at the table, you have better chance of isolating them if you raise from early position - this is so incredibly important at micros, you want to play as many hands as you can with the fish, and if you practice good table selection, there will be one at your table you want to get HU with too.

The live example is fine but live poker runs a lot more degen than online cash and spots like that are understandable. The only time I would ever do it was if there was a tilty spewtard shoving 50bbs every other hand, other than that, just raise, no matter what the situation, I just cannot see limp/3betting being +EV, and whoever suggested doing it with the bottom of their range too?!

If your going to limp with AA utg or in ep...you have to be mentally prepared to fold it on the flop in a multi-way pot against resistance.

I agree that it can be profitable to limp with it UTG preflop when you know there is a player or two who can't help themselves but raise. This is where HUD's are 'very' useful if you have been against them for 50-100 hands at least.

AA number of times we helped the card to rise so many times me and pulled down! Normally always raised preflop when you have AA in your hand.

The thing is you have to actually be good to limp pre-flop with AA. So, most people probably should avoid it..