| This is a discussion on Learning cash games: SD vs NSD within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; What are the benefits and drawbacks of each one?(I'd really be interested in hearing from C9 and Vanquish)... |
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| Learning cash games: SD vs NSD What are the benefits and drawbacks of each one?(I'd really be interested in hearing from C9 and Vanquish) |
| Play Texas Hold'em Online Poker | Learning cash games: SD vs NSD | |
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| well i generally win most of my money in non-showdown pots, because my approach involves playing speculative hands in position, and then taking down a lot of pots on the flop/turn against exploitable opponents. ie: i'll isolate a limper with something like JTs, and then try to take down the pot with a c-bet or another type of bluff when i don't hit (and just play standard poker when i do hit). high NSD winnings come from playing lots of pots in position, c-betting a lot, and skewing your ranges towards hands where you know exactly where you stand (ie: you either try not to see a showdown, or you try to get as much money in as possible) basically people with higher NSD than SD bluff more. it helps if you're playing a really nitty game etc., both because you win a lot more pots, and because you get looked up a bit lighter (which is nice when you're playing a FR game where no one wants to go all-in no matter how strong their hand). edit: that's kind of the jist of it, i'll try to post some more stuff on this later |
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ie: u 3bet the button from the BB with T9s, you know he has a really low fold to 3bet, but a high fold to cbet. now, when you hit, you can often stack him with your concealed hand (obv not 9xx boards, but like Q8xss, etc), and win a lot of pots where he doesn't hit and you don't either. this is mostly what i know from HU play, though. |
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| Yeah in 6max, its certainly feels easier to gain more in NSD pots than in FR, mainly due to the reasons Vanq has described. Some more plays that will help in NSD are isolating limpers when your in late posistion (thats obv standard), squeezing when your in the blinds against aggro stealers, and also floating looking to take down the pot against weak tight players on later streets. Double barelling is also useful. Caveat: These plays can be come very expensive and can actually do you more harm in NSD pots when overused or not used against the right type of villain. FWIW, I suck in NSD pots. I can have like 10k hands were I'll show a positive for this area, but then I can go on like a 20k run were I spew in NSD pots. I certainly don't have real consistency in that area and is something I need to work on. |
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| SD and NSD are connected, which I think a lot of people don't get. You can't significantly increase one of them without simultaneously losing mostly the same amount on the other one. You can play better, and increase winnings for both columns, but actively trying to skew your game towards one or the other is not worthwhile. Consider this: The biggest winner in NSD pots is the one who shoves every hand. |
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I was wondering about this topic also, i can never get my NSD winnings even to be positive... Also, vaquish talks about how he generally tries to steal the pot when he doesn't hit but then he more or less says that he gets the opponent to call when he does hit...now i know you can't choose which bets you want the villain to call or fold (unfortunately) but not quite sure how he distinguishes between them, does he mean that he tries to keep a small pot when he misses and make a big one when he hits?? can someone explain? Last edited by DKnight10 : 8th December 2008 at 5:43 PM. |
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| Mine are nice, especially for FR.......I think!? 2 BI up over 4k hands this month from NSD winnings ^_^ Maybe I'm just too agressive?! Maybe that's not good but I dunno!!?? DKnight, dunno what you're game is like, but try to not Limp-call PF..... or just utilise position as much as you can . What limits you playing? |
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| re: Learning cash games: SD vs NSD poker I think this is kinda a silly debate for the limits you're playing at Inscore. You're not going to be 3-betting light, stealing with any 2 often, or firing double barrels much. For the most part you're going to be playing with weak/passives who go to showdown too often. You should still be playing good solid aggressive poker preflop & on the flop, but I wouldn't think it was weird if your NSD winnings were slightly negative at those limits. Only if your NSD winnings are significantly negative (so that it impacts your win-rate more than say 25%) would you need to possibly change your game. I think the most applicable discussion at low limit 6-max is playing in 3-bet pots, and thin value betting. Fish call too much, and they get spewy in 3-bet pots, so you'll want to get good at exploiting those tendancies. |
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| re: Learning cash games: SD vs NSD poker Quote:
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| to stir the pot a little bit: -when i started beating 100nl and was moving up to 200nl, my NSD winnings were the highest i've ever seen compared to any winning regular's graph -my SD winnings were kinda negative when i was beating 2/4, -my SD winnings became positive, and my NSD winnings went down a little bit, so that the two lines were like y = 3x/2 and y = 2x/3 -its def possible to get both lines in very favorable spots just don't go busto b/c ur stubborn imo (btw, i have now seen wonderboy's graph (its on a different forum i won't mention) and he has the most amazing green + red line combo ever) |
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| I always thought my lines were pretty cool when I played nl25: 25nl.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15578&d=1228797855) Unfortunately since moving to 50nl I suck at the pokers and my SD and NSD winnings are just about equal and neither are that great. |
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| re: Learning cash games: SD vs NSD poker Quote:
I contend that what I said is true. |
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| I realized that I left something unsaid here: The feat of bluffing more without affecting SD winnings at all means you're bluffing with a 100% success frequency, which I hold to be impossible over any meaningful period of time. If your way of increasing NSD winnings is to bluff more, then your SD winnings will be negatively affected. Period. Maybe not by as much as your NSD winnings will be positively affected, but then it comes back to playing better and increasing overall profitability. So to suggest that there's a way to increase the one without at all affecting the other one negatively simply doesnt hold. |
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| I think successful bluffing has more to do with the size of the pots won than with success %. You could lose $2 to bluffing 9 times but win $30 with 1 bluff and be +$12 NSDW, but only 10% bluff success. **** Now for my 2 cents... I just try to use my graphs to look for fluctuations in my play and possibly find leaks. "Why did my NSDW take a harder dip for 2 days?" "Why did my blue line and red line cross for one day when they usually don't?" "My redline shot up a bit that day, so I guess my c-bets where getting respect." IMO, fluctuations are important because they are usually caused by things like tilt, poor table selection, or even luck. As far as gauging my overall results or progress with my graphs, I agree with TB. Worry about your green Winnings line and just use the other lines to figure out what affects your total winnings. EDIT: Here's a graph that really took some analyzing: 1008HemGrph2.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15620&d=1228943239) |
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Number of Posts: 27
Number of Authors: 12