KK flops QQ

Is this a situation where I should be prepared to throw away KK?

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Reads?
Who bet what preflop?
Who bet T$60 on the flop?

What are your HUD stats that aren't labeled?

From looking at the board, I'm guessing two players limped to the blinds and you make an undersized raise to 3x the bb from the sb and get one fold and two callers (or you called with kings?). Then you lead out with a minbet...what's your reasoning for this? Plan on folding to raise?

Not sure why we're talking about getting away from the hand without even any strength shown by opponents yet. ~3.5 to 1 stack to pot ratio after the small preflop raise. I'm not sure at what point folding an overpair becomes out of the question. Is this an stt...oh 1.10 means its an mtt.

Hand histories >>>>>> screenshots.

Please bear in mind that this isn't posted in the hand analysis section, it's posted in Learning Poker.

My HUD shows M and BB in big numbers next to player name, number of hands to the right of abbreviated name, then the standard VPIP / PFR / AF. The very last stat is how often they fold to a C-Bet on the flop.

It is not a question about this specific hand and what happened in this instance, it is just saying that I wouldn't very often be laying down KK, but in this situation I might.I wouldn't, but the question is whether it should sometimes be folded post-flop.

What was the action preflop? It matters for how we play it postflop believe it or not.

Might as well delete the thread I suppose - I'm not looking for hand analysis.

There is no way to answer your question without knowing their ranges. We can better define their ranges through 1. Stats, 2. Action Preflop.

Without those things we're just guessing.

What are you looking for so ?

If you posting in Learning poker, you need to be prepared to take some a little criticism, after all its the only way to learn.

I was thinking back to when I first started playing poker and the fact that if I had KK there was no way I was folding it, regardless. So I saw this situation and thought it might be useful to help people that are starting out in poker to see that maybe there are some times when it might be best to fold KK. However, I think its fair to say that my thread concept failed spectacularly, hence my suggestion to delete it. Sorry, guys.

It's a fine concept. I just have issues with the execution.

Concept and execution are fine.

Yes, this is a situation where throwing away KK would be a viable, even correct option. First to act + limpers/limp-callers + paired paint on board = bad. More than likely you are beat, and would probably have to spend alot of your stack to find that out. Aside from catching the two-out K on the following two streets (maybe one out if an opponent is holding KQ in which case you will win the stack, but outside that .....) you are likely dead in the water, especially if anyone else calls that min-bet.

In this example, if raised, fold it, if called, shut it down and not put another dime into that pot.

Two other players to the flop, and we are likely dead in the water? Although its possible we are beat, we've seen no evidence we are yet, and it isn't "likely" that one of those four cards out is one of the two remaining queens.

Given that this is a raised pot w/ two callers, there is a greater likelyhood of another Q being in the calling range. (QKs, AQ, hell, even QJ or QT this early in the SNG is possible)

I was also giving a worse case scenario to highlight the pitfalls of an over-pair on a paired board.

You are also out of position against 2 players who (presumably) called your raise. One being the BB, and the other limp/calling. The limp/caller could have any Qx hand in the Q10 and up range. And I would assume he BB also needs at least something decent to be there as well.

I can see how you could disagree with me on this, but that is my opinion and I stand by it.

I would check it down if possible, maaybe call a small bet (though if either of them does have the third Q they would likely slowplay and bet small for value anyways), and fold to any good show of strength.

Well it does depend on their range how often they hold a queen, which is where the other info WVH wanted comes in. If it was a limp in late position, and calling a small raise from the big blind, that doesn't narrow their hand range down very much for me in a micro mtt.

I mean, I'm not going to make bets that only a hand that beats me is going to call, but think its possible to get some value from a pocket pair, maybe ace high, someone pairing the turn, there is no flush draw on the flop to call - anyway, I'm not looking to fold here without good reason.

I was quite nervous when I saw the flop but eventually I did actually win it, probably more by luck than good judgement.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t2130)
UTG+1 (t1320)
MP1 (t3060)
MP2 (t1290)
MP3 (t15)
CO (t1145)
Button (t1250)
Hero (SB) (t1460)
BB (t1830)

Hero's M: 24.33

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K
5 folds, CO calls t40, Button calls t40, Hero bets t100, BB calls t60, CO calls t60, Button calls t60

Flop: (t400) Q, 3, Q (4 players)
Hero bets t60, BB calls t60, 1 fold, Button calls t60

Turn: (t580) 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks

River: (t580) 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t150, 1 fold, Hero calls t150

Total pot: t880

Results:
Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and Queens).
BB had K, 3 (two pair, Queens and threes).
Outcome: Hero won t880

You wanna talk about preflop bet sizing now???

Generally I do 2.5 BB UTG or UTG+1 and 3BB anywhere else.

2.5 BB from the worst position at the table (SB) with 2 limpers is FAR from standard. 5 or 6 BB in that spot would be preferred. Don't be afraid to build big pots with your strong hands (the only ones you should generally be playing from the SB).

I would try to keep the pot as small as possible. But I would be prepared to throw away KK depending on how the betting goes.

you need to read Phil gordans little green book to help you with pre-flop raises

With pocket Kings I would of raise alot more to slim down the number of players

Raise 2.5 ro 3 times will not cut it for pocket kings. I'm surprise that your where not out played with big pocket pairs like that

Like doyle said you can win a small pot or lose a big pot

Phil Hellmuth said: Never through Kings away. I agree with him, if it´s not obviously that you are beaten.

Show strength and raise pre-flop. Maybe there is someone with A? and call you all the way down and hit the A.

You made the right read on the hand.

Would i be wrong saying that he could of bet the river with 1/2 the pot and won the pot right there, i say that from the checks on the turn card.

The right raise would of been 3X the BB plus 1X per limper so 200 would of been good as said by WVH

You kinda have to analyze the hand if you want to know if you gotta throw it away. If there is a pot of 400, I would bet at least 300. If you get called then a red flag goes up, and if you get raised by a tight player then you may have to. I know that's not what you want to hear in the thread, but it's hard not to analyze to a point.

If you'd put out a decent bet preflop (3.5x in SB +1bb for each limper is ~standard).. AND if you'd lead out with a cbet ~2/3 pot, you might get an idea of where you're at.
What's with the 'minbet' on the flop? Just curious... what is the point of making a bet of this size?