I got a stupid question: Do horrible players ever think about fixing their game?

I don't know the answer to it. I'm asking this because sometimes, when I look at other people's ptr or sharkscope out of anger over stupidity getting rewarded, suckouts, etc; their graph is constantly going down in linear form for long period of time without any progress. I'm not a good, profiting player but when I don't do well, I consider stopping what i'm doing, drop stakes, and learn to fix my game and try analyzing before going back to where i was. I'm just wondering and saying to myself "how do they even have a bankroll to lose this much? isn't there some point in their lives where they want to try profiting for a change?"

Here's two examples. I'm not a douchebag to publish their names and cyber-assassinate them but when i see these kind of graphs, those are stupid questions i asked to myself where I cannot figure it out myself.

horrible graph.JPG (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27828&d=1272106585)

horrible tourney graph.JPG (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27827&d=1272106551)

Different people have different priorities, and there are a lot of recreational players. Ultimately they are the ones that make poker profitable for people that are willing to study and try to improve their game. Clearly some people want to improve their game, and that's why sites such as this exist. A lot of people just play for fun.

My guess is that these players don't view themselves as horrible, despite the contrary evidence (which they probably don't ever look at, anyway).

Another way to look at this would be as follows (along the lines of NoWuckingFurries' comments): if you played the lottery every day, would your chart look much different than the ones you attached?

What you find in some cases is that some people make big gains playing SnGs and MTTs. Then because they have heard that if you want to make big money they need to play ring, they proceed to lose it all at the ring games.

PTR only tracks ring game play. So, you don't see how they made the money they are losing.

This is why I recommend that when people are trying to build their bankrolls fom freeroll winnings that they stick to games similar to how they won it. Then when they have a larger BR they can venture into other games.

Some do, some don't. Were you a solid poker player from day one? I doubt any of us were, so be careful judging people on small sample sizes.

I think the big idea is you just can't assume about anyone. To some people 1k doesn't mean anything. You can't assume they are playing to be a great player. Some people just get on for the thrill of the gamble, the rush of the win (and loss). You just never can guess anyone's motive in poker... or life for that matter. So while you worry about improving your game, they may or may not even consider the skill involved.

Stix

Thank the poker gods that they are out there or serious players would make no money. People play for different reasons.

I know someone who plays micro stakes online for fun. He actually understands how to play solid poker but enjoys taking longshot risks. The money isn't large and he has fun. Someone like you or me makes money. Sounds like a win/win to me.

Bill

Maybe their loaded (rich) and just play for fun? They don't care if they lose

I have found a lot of bad players that get lucky seem to think they are winning by being a good player and by no means to i ever encourage them to try and improve, the bad beats and suckouts hurt but over the long run they are gonna give everything back plus some.

Amen to that!

I would have to answer yes to the OPs question because I was a horrible player. My PTR will show that. I am now trying to fix my game. I may still be a horrible player, I'll know after 100k hands.
Most of us bad players spend most of our time hoping to catch or we suffer from FPS because we watch a lot of poker. Every once in a while though one of us stumbles on a forum like this one and actually commits to the forum for mare than a few posts. If we make it that far I think we are on the long road of improvement.
I might still be a fish but at least now I am a fish that can at least see the sharks.
Wet

I should've been more specific. Not necessarily horrible players. Over 90% including myself as well are horrible since they're all losing players. But you see what I mean? Just like me, you even told yourself in your mind, "I can't go on like this. at this rate, I'm gonna lose a lot more. i better analyze my plays and fix my game." You said your ptr will show but you actually have upswings in the middle and you've actually paused and moved down stakes, just like me, where graph is flatlined neutral at the end which is indication that you stopped. Mine is similar as well. The graphs I posted here are players who have been constantly losing for over a year, no upswing, just constantly lose downslope in linear graph with no turning point at all. They've lost over 10k and almost 30k. I was asking this forum "how the heck do these players even have bankroll to lose this much? don't they feel the need to improve at all after losing constantly downhill for over a year without a single turning point?"

But CCers on this thread responded that it's a life of recreational players who like to gamble for adrenaline purpose. Some even play on here because it beats going to casinos. Anyways, not only did I ask stupid question, i was being stupid to be making such thread. In the end, we shouldn't even encourage those constant downslope losers with no turning point to improve. CCers also told me that they can be doctors, lawyers, retired businessmen, entrepeneurs who have lot of money and play for fun since there are no casinos near them.

I hope they don't fix their game.

Zorba is dead on. It's hard to imagine someone playing for a year and constantly losing and it's really hard to accept when you take a bad beat from them, but we NEED THEM. I don't want to play against Ivey every day.

Who would wanna play against me!

Some people have enough money that they play for fun and not worry about profit. I know of one such gentleman whith whom I frequently play live tourneys. He shows up every week, buys in, plays for a while and busts. The whole time he's chatting with everyone, drinking beer and overall hving a good time. He says he know's he's a bad player, but he dosn't care. To him the game is about hanging out with the guys over beers, and not at all about skill or profit. Though I must admit, that there are times when I have a sneaking suspition that hey's just playing us all and is going to go on a major winning streak any time now. heh heh

I think it varies by player. Some do not care, while others try and change some things about their game to try and make it better.

Uhm....no one has said this yet, so I will point it out.

Rakeback is a possibility. Last year I was down around 1k, but with rakeback I was actually up about $400. Its possible that these guys have large enough volume that they are at least staying afloat due to rakeback. Then again since they are losing so bad it is possible that they don't even use rb....

I personally never used rakeback, but did you just say that rakeback took you from -$1000 to +$400, a $1400 increase? I mean that would be unworldly..

Wow! How do I sign up for that rakeback?

Players should sit down and think about how they are playing however they don't as said above they just play for fun and the thrill like blackjack or roulette however Poker at least in my opinion is a lot more professional game compared to the prior ones listed.

^^ completely. Because of that, I feel stupid about this thread since constant downslope bankroll players with no turning point might see this thread from search engine and consider fixing.

The graph i posted on OP, PTR estimated that player's rakeback is $300. even with bonus,etc, it doesn't make up for $9k loss. LOL. You're right. They're losing so bad and I doubt this person has rakeback. lol. Even if they did, it doesn't help them.

I think as said before, some people are simply playing for fun. I suppose some people would see studying and trying to improve as time they could be playing if there on a tight schedule.

Thankfully, there are many possible reasons why losing players keep playing. In addition to those already stated, here ares some others:

There are players who think they're improving their games, but either really aren't, or are but only at a very slow rate. In their minds, they'll start winning as soon as they improve enough. In the meantime, they believe they're piling up hands played / experience that will benefit them later.

In a similar vein, some undoubtedly consider their losses to be a form of paying their dues while they learn how to win and/or get to the next level.

Some believe they're actually good enough to be winning players, just caught in a long run of bad luck that they're riding out.

maybe there not bad player and they don't care for lossing. There are people out there that play just for fun and don't care if they lose

Let's just hope these people keep losing and losing and losing. if not then poker is a lot harder game

Yes. That was over a few months of playing 50NL. Currently I have dropped down to 25NL. I 12 table 25NL and make around $80 a week in rakeback. I think it actually equates to something like $5 an hour. (So it was $10 an hour at 50NL)

There's a lot of recreational gamblers out there who have no interest in trying hard or spending time learning to play well. They just gamble for the fun of it. Putting effort in would likely ruin their fun.

Just look at any casino at the tables full of people playing the table games (especially baccarat). They are getting eaten up by the house edge, but they don't care, they just keep playing.

Consider the 2nd graph. This player has lost about $28,000 over about 4500 games played. That's only about -$6 per game played. If he's playing $20+2 buyin games, that's a -27% ROI. Pretty bad, but for some that's cheap entertainment. He has likely been playing years and years to accumulate that many games played.

And with 30% rakeback/bonuses, he may indeed not be down nearly that much. Even if he's playing $10+1 games with an ROI of -55% (absolutely terrible, probably the worst <2% of all players), he's still only losing a few bucks per game played. Figuring the average tourny (for him at least) at an hour, that's pretty cheap entertainment.

Hey, where did you get my graph !

There are a lot of ppl with money who spend their free time playing poker.
Also there are some guys that won a big prize through a sattelite with some luck and after that thinking they are good they lost all of them .
Something like Moneymaker

It's human nature. If there's chance involved in a game people will fail to see the big picture. They'll just consider themselves unlucky and keep on trying to win big bucks at the poker table.

The first thing that comes to mind is that there is a huge range of people playing this game, and for many many reasons. If you take me for an example, I started playing for a chance to win a WSOP seat in a local tournament, then I went to home games and now I play mostly on line for free or low stakes. I am probably a crappy player but I know I was a lot worse because I got together with a few friends that used to play in the home games and couldnt believe I used to play the random cards that I did and how few hand I now get involved in, Its really pretty shocking although I think I had a lot more fun back then LOL! Now I take it more seriously and have to think about many more things to "play better". Still depending on my situation I still suck out on people, mainly because I just dont believe them and call with some dominated hand and somehow hit something that wins, but not that often :-) , most of the time I feel it is the other way around. I also get into situations like I'm sure you all do when you are tired of either getting pushed around or getting crap cards and finally shove and maybe win but so what! I hate when it happens either way but it does and will and that is what we have to put up with. So yes, I try to get better by reading and joining Card Chat and through experience and for the most part I think most others do too if they really like to play and get better, its just everybody is somewhere different in their level of play or playing a paticular way for one reason or another and some probably dont care.

When I first started I had a poker allowance in the family budget, I don't need it any more as I do ok and at least break even. I have been playing a long time and have been trying to learn, reading books, magazines, forums and watching videos etc.

I learnt enough to make money and others fell by the way side, most do one or the other.

There is also the other type, rich or stupid players who think nothing of dropping $500+ into an account and playing a limit way above their skill level, but they can afford to keep doing it.

They probably believe by playing more hands they will improve, as we all know it takes more than just playing lots

What, you want these players to go away?? Are you nuts?

There are people who think they are better than they are, and there are people who play for fun with a massive personal bank balance that lets them lose like that without any pain whatsoever. Losing $10-20K would be awful for some of us, but for someone with a seven-figure income, it's not much at all. (I have to hope that nobody who is losing like this is actually unable to afford it -- even though I know there are people who wreck their lives like this.)

Those of us who have a limited poker bankroll/budget, some self-awareness and a reality-based outlook would either quit, cut back or try to get better. But some do not have such constraints.

For many of these people the total value of their losses doesn't really hit them. I had friends who would sit around one computer for a night taking turns playing SnGs. One person loads $25 on PS and then plays a few...over a typical evening none of them would lose the entire $25. But over months they would each burn multiple $25 PS buys which really adds up.

Funny enough...a friend who takes poker more seriously showed them sharkscope...which in turn showed them that each had lost over $1k in something less than a year from their minor buy-in entertainment. It actually convinced them to stop :P