How much to raise with pockets

This is a discussion on How much to raise with pockets within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; If you have a high pocket pair 1010 or higher, and you are on the button with 2-3 callers hows much over the Big blind ...
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  #1
25th July 2009, 3:19 PM
abomb576
 
How much to raise with pockets

If you have a high pocket pair 1010 or higher, and you are on the button with 2-3 callers hows much over the Big blind do you raise? Lately, I seem to be losing a lot to like J 3 or 10 4 with players limping into the pot.
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  #2
25th July 2009, 3:48 PM
D'wilius
 
Poker at: Pokerstars
Game: 8-game
A general rule of thumb used is one big blind for every limper on top of your normal opening raise. I think it should depend how deep you are also, like I'm happy following that rule in a cash game, but might not raise quite so much in medium stacked tournament situation [or possibly just shove if it would put me half allin]

...be aware at some loose passive games, the whole table may still limp/call and you'll look at overcards on flop multiway often. You'll still have position but may not want to invest that much of your stack on a hand that doesn't play that well multiway without hitting a set. Have to adjust to the table, whether they are likely to limp/fold or limp/call and what price they are willing to pay to see a flop.

Last edited by D'wilius : 25th July 2009 at 3:58 PM.
  #3
25th July 2009, 4:31 PM
Tom1559
 
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: Holdem
This is a good question. A lot of guys now limp in early position with good hands. Not sure why they do this but it is afeature of the modern game. There is always the risk that you will get caught. However I would always raise with pocket 10's. You have to play to win and with limpers in front of you you want all of them out except 1 otherwise who is going to pay you off. Trust your cards. If you raise say 3xBB plus one for each of the limpers most of them will get out of the way. If they all get out of the way at least you get the blinds.
  #4
26th July 2009, 8:50 AM
yanix0
 
Game: holdem
first before you raise pay attention to your opponent's chips , if they got alot of them they might call you with trash hands( especially if the amateur players ). if 3 players limped i think you should raise more than 4xbb.
  #5
26th July 2009, 7:08 PM
slycbnew
 
Online Poker at: PS/FT/Ultimatebet
Game: PLO/NLHE
re: How much to raise with pockets poker

A typical rule of thumb is to open raise (i.e., if you're first to enter the pot) 4x the BB from any position. If you're entering a pot behind limpers, add 1BB for each limper. So, on the button with two limpers in front of you, you'd raise to 6xBB.

You'll need to tailor this to your style of play, the stakes you play, and the current table dynamics.

There are other things to take account of later (position, stealing frequency, and villain types), but you'll probably want to start with something like this basic/simplistic model.

Oh, to D'Wilius' point, I'm specifically talking about cash games and not MTT's/SNG's.
  #6
27th July 2009, 1:57 PM
abomb576
 
That sounds like a good strategy, raising 1 BB for every limper, I never heard of that before but if they have a real hand than they will call. This should weed out all the garbage hands and those afraid to call a big raise with good hands.
  #7
29th July 2009, 5:27 PM
bertschejv
 
Online Poker at: Fulltilt
Game: NL Holdem
I like that strategy of increasing the raise 1 BB for every limper ahead of you. I have been trying it the past couple of days and it seems to be working for me. Before, I would just do a standard sort-of 3X BB, and would get called of shoved by KJ or something like that, but adding the 1 BB for every limper seems to cut down on me getting called with marginal hands. Good advice
  #8
29th July 2009, 5:58 PM
dresturn2
 
Poker at: fulltilt
Game: holdem
depending on my stack i will raise the minium 2 and a half BBs.....u have to raise to take control of the hand but u also need away to back out in case that really tight player check raises u or goes all in on the flop infront of u
  #9
6th August 2009, 3:02 AM
Goodwooter
 
Online Poker at: FTP
Game: Holdem
keep it simple...early position...2x the bb...mid 2.5 times...late 3x...no matter the hand
  #10
6th August 2009, 7:46 AM
ted80
 
Poker at: bodog
Game: holdem
re: How much to raise with pockets poker

if i'm utg or utg+1 i like to 3+1BB(+possible limper utg before me) to the premium pairs, hoping to compensate or push away anyone in position who might decide "oh what the hell"...that extra little bit might make a difference...OOP, nothing more disgusting than half the table still calling you....of course you can get all of them but one, maybe two (which is still pretty gross) out of there right after the flop regardless of whether you hit or not with a nice bet, but then you might be dealing with someone who hit their ace-rag, or you're setting yourself up for a really nice pot. QQ is a nice hand when a Q or J is the top card on the flop to fire out violently on multiple callers...either that or you just dug your own grave
  #11
6th August 2009, 8:21 AM
Toasted_Luck
 
Online Poker at: Full TIlt
Game: Both

whenever i enter a pot i always as a rule raise it 3x the blind. If there are callers i add a blind for each caller. example. dealt pocket deuces blinds are 10/20 two call i would raise it to 100. if im dealt A 10 suited and get two callers i would also raise it to 100.
  #12
6th August 2009, 2:34 PM
benevg
 
Game: puzzles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwooter
keep it simple...early position...2x the bb...mid 2.5 times...late 3x...no matter the hand
i would like to see you try that with a hand where there are several limpers already. total effect = 0, except that the pot is now larger, so when you get outdrawn you stand to lose more. also, way to read ferguson and ignore the most important part - "when you are first in the pot".

generally, what they said - add a blind or so for every limper in the pot, this should get most of the people out of the hand. however, you should be careful with this math in a tournament setting, where the blinds can be very high compared to the stacks. it may lead you to have a point where it is better to simply push, no matter that it is more or less than what you would like to bet.

good luck!
  #13
6th August 2009, 3:22 PM
toogood2k
 
Online Poker at: FULLTILT
Game: Holdem,Omaha
in my experience, better is raise 4x+ bigblinds, becouse there will be much limpers who can hit much better hands than you got
  #14
6th August 2009, 11:08 PM
kidkvno1
 
Poker at: Ultimatebet
Game: holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'wilius
A general rule of thumb used is one big blind for every limper on top of your normal opening raise. I think it should depend how deep you are also, like I'm happy following that rule in a cash game, but might not raise quite so much in medium stacked tournament situation [or possibly just shove if it would put me half allin]

...be aware at some loose passive games, the whole table may still limp/call and you'll look at overcards on flop multiway often. You'll still have position but may not want to invest that much of your stack on a hand that doesn't play that well multiway without hitting a set. Have to adjust to the table, whether they are likely to limp/fold or limp/call and what price they are willing to pay to see a flop.
^^^ +1
Some will even pay all of there chip
 



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