How to get good value off the nuts?

Now I find that this is one of the most annoying things in poker. I get a perfect flop for me but no one else hits. I usually just check flop and turn and bet river if anything. But is there really anyway that I can get some value?

Perhaps c-betting more? Then hopefully you can bet the flop and run into someone trying to look you up or push you off the hand...

If there are no draws on the board, maybe try a min bet on the turn, alot of ppl think that is usually a bluff and it is cheap enough to let them see another card.

Oh and what Shufflin said.

Don't be afraid to bet for value. Sometimes slowplaying will be the right thing to do, but often you'll make more by just betting your hand in a fairly straightforward manner. If you lead the flop and your opponent folds, often it's because they've missed completely and they were unlikely to pay you any more in the hand anyway but if they call you've got the opportunity to extract more value from them on the next two streets.

Getting max value out of our monsters is really situational. "It depends" is cliche and often sounds like a cope out. Truth be told though there is no one size fits all answer. So many variables in poker.

Having said that, c-beting does tend to build the pot and tie people to the hand. C-betting assumes you were the preflop aggressor. What if you were not? What if it was a limped pot? What if you have a maniac to your left? What if your image is loose or tight? What if the flop was dry? See what I mean by its situational and there are so many variables to consider.

I see it as truly situational , that being said a C bet is your better solution as it does build a pot . Waiting til the river to bet is a problem as all villians now know what they have , nobody is trying to catch anything at that point , they are where they are so if they missed they can easily fold it.

Just continue c-betting as you do.
If you change your strategy, you may end up screwing up a winning formula.

Good advice above. Play it as you normally would as if you've missed. Depending on villain you can possibly get max value by shoving the river, esp. if you have players willing to stack off with TPTK,

bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

Lots of good advice so the only thing I will add is just remember that in poker 10% of anything is always better than 100% nuthin'!!!

all i can say is throw a minbet on the flop then, if u get a call or two, make a bigger bet on the turn..possibly an overbet, that's worked for me personally...people tend to expect minimal bets when a person has the nuts so i try to disguise my bets as bluffs...either i get folded to and take the small pot or someone feels brave and raises me...if its on the river i'll shove but if its on the turn i'll just flatcall the raise and try to get them to take another shot on the river...but yea, its really hard to get paid off wen u've got the nuts obviously, more often than not nobody else will have hit

if you bet the flop, and check the turn, u feign weakness, and more than a few players will try to represent a hand you beat. You could even C/R the turn, but most will fold out....but maybe. 1/2 pot to open the river, maybe you get lucky and villain pays, maybe not.

what if you wiff flop.. are you cbetting? then why check flop w big hands?

Nothing personal but I truly HATE this ^

This tactic works well against the aggressive guys when you are OOP.

Bet half the pot on flop and then hesitate for a bit on the turn and then check. The aggro dudes will even shove behind u.

This.

OP implied a perfect flop, and thus the nuts, like maybe he got an aces full boat (him with an A) or a str8fl.

While this straightforward approach works often, the idea here is to get the most value, or as close to the most value as we can. The bet, bet, bet, approach often misses a chance to even get the river bet in. And the river bet is the bet we want called or raised as it will be the biggest and most profitable bet (bet being a percentage of the pot).

If you are sure you've got a fish hooked, then bet bet bet is great. If you respect the player/s involved then the turn hesitation is my preferred method.

when in doubt bet it as you normally would, say 1/2 flop, 1/3 turn 1/4 river, whatever your normal pattern is

however, the ideal time to flop nuts is when you are defending your blind (let's say) vs. an aggressive player ... let him c-bet into you, smooth call, let him fire another bullet on turn

then if the poker gods are smiling on you, maybe the villian makes a nice hand on river and ships you all of his chips ... woot woot

and as another poster pointed out ... one good way to get paid is to have got caught bluffing a few times or if you have been aggressive in raising pots, which can plant the seed that you are playing less than premium hands or are inexperienced and are over-valuing your hands

finally, if you can put your opponent on a hand, you can exploit the situation better ... i know, why put an opponent on a hand when you have nuts, but it can help you determine what to do ... i.e. you could c-bet if you raised ... a lot of players love to call c-bet, so then you check the turn like you got caught bluffing, they bet, you smooth call ... then maybe you over-bet the river to feign another desparate bluff attempt ...

bottom line is having the nuts is a good thang and usually fun and profitable

I think I'm getting the idea of what you guys are saying. Basically play the hands as though I've got air. I found a new method of playing showdowns. No matter what, I always bet the same amount of chips on a showdown so that my opponent has no idea if I'm bluffing or I've got the nuts.

You will not get stacks in unless there is a sizable bet on every street.

Therefore by not betting each street you lose value.

A river bet will only be the same size as a turn bet if you check the turn through.

People do not generally bluff enough rivers or raise for thin value so you would not be expecting to see a river bet raise if you check the turn.

I really hope you made these numbers up and would never play a value hand this way yourself.

By betting so small you lose value.

There is almost no reason to bet 1/4 pot river after betting 1/3 pot turn.

Basically what you are saying is that you are having to bet this small to get called by a super wide range so that you hand is statistically good. There is almost no value hand that you could bet for thin value on the turn that could get called by a wide enough range to be good once any river bet is made, not when you are having to bet this small on the flop and turn to be good against his calling range.

Now in this example you have the nuts so its LOL bad, but even a weak value hand should either be bet bigger for value on the turn or checked through to induce a river bet from a range you beat.

It really depends on board texture.

No it dosent.

Value bets are always big.

The only thing board texture could do (when you have a value had) is to prevent you from betting it for value.

The notion that you can thin value the flop or turn is stupid, if you are thin value betting the flop or turn then there is no value to be had in a river bet.

If your value bets are small and its not because you are trying to bet for thin value then you are losing value.

I was referring to the OP, "How to get good value off the nuts."

How you play the nuts depends greatly on the action on the previous betting round and the texture of the board. If you flop broadway in a multiway pot it's a lot different than flopping quads with AA.

True, but most players are terrible at betting for value so when we have a value hand we bet it because we dont expect villians to be all that great at betting their own hands for value and we want to be able to play for stacks.

We also never bet small when betting for value and if we hold the nuts then we will be betting 3 streets and each bet will be big.

It sucks when villian misses completely but betting smaller is usually incorrect, its actually quite rare to that you will come up with a thin value range that is so greatly bigger than a normal value range that the smaller bet size yields a higher return. (It is possible and it does happen, but its rare.. try it yourself you will be surprised and realise that smaller value bet sizes are generally -ev.)

Some people will have elastic ranges on certain boards.

OP did not mention what stakes this scenario takes place at.

I will venture a guess that in the micro games the bet bet bet approach is more valuable than any misinformation we can throw out at that level. The hesitation on the turn bet, which I like, stands a better chance of getting a villain to commit, via bluff, at a higher stakes game.

In either case, I would think we want to baffle our villains, either with bullshit, or bets that do NOT fill in a storyline, in order to get them more involved in the hand, and thus donate more to the pot. We want them to think they are controlling the action at a higher stakes game whereas in the micros they generally won't have a clue.

The 3 bullet strategy, amongst players with 1/2 a brain, is not something we, with another 1/2 brain, want to trifle with often. So the hesitation on the turn can induce a bluff raise at us. We could c/r but will likely miss out on another opportunity to let our villain hang himself on the river. We offered some misinformation with the turn check, now we need to have the heart (not a problem in the nuts case) of seeing it thru.

You may not want to use either of these strategies all the time, alternating between them helps keep your readability at the minimum.

If you are cbetting most of your' hands on the flop (which you should) then cbet your' monsters. They are much more disguised than if you check - raise or check call and raise the turn. Playing it aggressively on the flop like the rest of your' hands means people won't know when you hit a monster, a good hand or whiff.

Slowplaying is only a good idea when you know your' opponent won't call a bet but might improve on the turn / river and then we can extract value. It is also only a good idea when it is safe to give a free card without letting him draw out on you.

This is standard how I play but obviously situational so you got to be ready to adjust and "standard" play.

TBH DJ this is completely wrong.

If you feel that villian will not call many turn bets, then the key to beating him is not to slowplay the nuts. The key to beating him is bluffing turns.

If you truely play an agressive style, the one thing you must must must do is value bet every single time you can make a value bet. Doing this properly increases your betting frequency. When you bet a lot, people start playing back at you, so you do get the nuts paid off.

What your trying to say is that if the turn is checked through then villian will be shoving on the river. Why? If you have air then villian does not have to bet all that big to make you fold it. You have created a samll pot by checking the turn, a river minraise should be enough to make you fold air if you are bluffing but if villian has a SD hand he is far more likely to call than to turn his hand into a bluff.

If you have air, ace high is the best hand so why would he shove when he can call a small bet with ace high?

You are trying to induce small bets from hands that wouldnt normally call than to get stacks from hands that would call .. and if you are aggressive people call lighter and lighter.

At higher stakes games people do not miss value with the nuts unless they have very specific reads on villian, i.e. they know for a fact villian has a tendency to shove rivers when the turn has been checked. Has this been noted or is it something you are just hoping will happen? If so why will it happen?

You must get value. If you play a big hand in a way that prevents you from getting stacks in on the river then you have misplayed that hand.

Stu nails it.

Basically if you flop the nuts you need to put money in the pot. It doesn't mean you bet so much to chase people away but if there is betting to you, you raise; if it's checked to you, you bet. If you're first to act, you should donk unless you have a very good reason to believe someone will bet for you.

You should always put a lot of money in if you have the nuts but not the immortal nuts (i.e. straights/flushes on scary boards) on boards that hit your opponent. This is especially true if it's a board that you would like to bluff/semibluff.