hitting a set but all the flop cards same suit advice please

hello all sorry i have not posted for a while but as the title says this has happened twice recently and I wonder what you all think is the best strategy for this? First occasion: playing in GUKPT main event blinds where 1-200 I had 5000 left and played my pp6 from early pos'n limped in and got 3 two callers the flop came jack high with a another 6 all the cards where spades. I raised to 1000 got called and then the last to act put me all in for the remaining of my stack around 4000, I folded but thinking he had made his flush but it could have been a squeeze play, it is the only time I have ever folded a set and maybe the occasion got to me as it was a big tourney.
Second time happened last night got pp3's blinds were 50-100 i min' raised to 200 UTG (I read an article by Negraneu who recommended doing this to try and halt people coming over the top) got around 5 callers the flop came all clubs but with my set making other 3, I again raised to a 1000, basically I think I don't want another club to come making someones flush and I also want to bet out to see if I come up against opposition they all folded and I took down a nice pot. I just wonder if Im maximising my pay off or would other cc regulars try and slow play this thanks for all the advice again i do appreciate it and I hope i'v explained it all well. I would hope poker orifice would respond as you give good advice cheers the sniper

Great question and I've been in this spot a few times also. My reaction would be the same as yours - bet to find out and bet pot so as to make it -ve EV for the guy with only one suited card. I guess you also have to take into account the possibility that we hit a FH although I'm not sure what the odds of that are (hopefully someone can come up with this?)

I just try to remember that if the villain has a flush draw, or even the made flush, we've always got outs to a full house when we're holding a set. We've got 7 outs for the turn and if we don't hit there we'll have 10 on the river.

So unless you've got some crazy read that says the villain must be holding a made flush I just bet it for value, making sure it's a big enough amount that draws will be paying the wrong price but we're still getting called by things like TPTK etc.

well it comes down to knowing how the people play at your table. if they are dumb push all in if they only play with the nuts make a 3x bb bet if they push over you fold

Bad poker players love any suited hand. So if you trust your ability enough that you think you can label most of your opponents "dumb", you'd actually better check a monotone flop and fold to any all-in. The looser your opponents, the more cautious you should be in this case.

In the 2nd hand example... I'm trying to get it straight... so you've led out with an overbet on the flop... almost 2xPot? (if they've hit the flush, this isn't going to get them to lay it down). I'm probably going to bet 4/5pot, with it being 5-way there's a greater chance of someone hitting the flush or at least drawing to it.. (I'd never slowplay the set!!). I'm raising for value & to protect my hand.

In the 1st hand, would it make sense for villain to shove in that spot if they were indeed holding a flush (perhaps a weaker one, wanting to charge an As or Ks)??

This exact thing happened to me about an hour ago in a $2 6 handed tourney...
Blinds 20/40. I had 2295,he had 3380.
I was SB-villian was on the button.
I got 1010 and folded to villian-he bets 140.
I figured it was a button steal so I raised to 400,BB calls,villian calls.
Now I didn't want to see the BB in, flop comes out 3 4 10 all clubs.
I bet the pot-1200, BB folds,villian calls, which I didn't want to see, but if he made his flush I think he would have raised me all in, so I think I got the best hand.
Turn comes out 7s-safe card. I push for my last 715(looking back I should have just shoved on the turn) and he calls.
Villian shows Ac Js river comes 3d
I win with a full house and he ends up with AJ high.

In this tourney I knew he was a calling station and playing crap hands, so my read helped a lot. I might have folded to a reraise,especially if it was a solid player, but I was willing to gamble with this guy. He got KO'd after pushing with 45 suited. You have to read your table as well as protect your set.

topset.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30371&d=1279243436)

I just wanted to add to a very nice explanation above, when I am in this situation, even if someone caught the flush on the flop with you hitting the set you still have a few outs to win with the board pairing for a full house or an outside quad hit.

thanks guys for all the advice, it seems to me then you make the call even if it is for your tournament life? if you are behind to a made flush (hard to achieve) the chance of making a full house makes the call obligatory?

If you know that your opponent has a made flush then no, the call wouldn't be obligatory. You'd need to be getting the right odds.

Point is though, you can never know with 100% certainty that your opponent has the flush unless they've shown you their cards so against the range of hands that they could be holding (which depending on the player could be anything from a bluff or a naked draw through to their own set or the made flush) your set is usually in good shape, either being ahead or drawing live with 7-10 outs to a boat or quads.

FYP -Edited for readability, I had to.

The way I see this is about the same as when I have the big overpair and a flush flop comes. If I have one of the suit or none of the suit I will play them different. Add in position and how these hands get played varies greatly. In early position the problem is if you bet into the pot you may be running up against the made hand, versus if you don't seek to find out where you are, you'll be blind the rest of the way.

I find solace that other players fear the flush flop as much as I do (tho every once in a while I'm sure I run into color blind fools).

In your first example, I like the reasons you gave for folding. Tourney life is all you got, and u must make big laydowns to survive in tourneys.

It looks like you might have had a bigger starting stack in the second scenario, and you did fine. We all assume you were ready to muck if you met resistance.

Besides the made flush, in both cases there was still the remote possibility that your villains hit bigger sets.

If you are last to act post flop, flush flops are easier steals. Most of the people, most of the time will check a flush flop, if only to gain some info, and if that info is made by the last to act in the form of a good healthy preventative bet, then most of the people, most of the time will give the pot to you. Of course the big problem is the tricky bustard who slow plays his made nut flush just waiting for you to do this very thing......


But again, 7-10+ outs is not such a bad place to get stuck.....

if you have a set on the flop, 1 out of 3 times you make a full house, plus this guy might be on 2 pair and he is shoving to not get called by a flush draw, plus he might be on a flush draw, or an over pair or top pair, just too many things he could have and be behind us, so you should call, if he has a flush, just bad luck, maybe board gets paired.

Playing a set against a made flush isn't easy, but you have a little better than 35% to improve to a full house, so it's not that hard.

You want to talk about hard? We raise from the CO with AJo, get called twice, flop is AsTs4s. One villain checks, next one looks at his hole cards then fires a barrel...

Do we fold, raise, or call?

We're one hell of a long shot to improve to a full house, and we don't have a spade.

For what it's worth, the answer is "It depends."

There's no right way, but with a set (especially top set), I mind stacking off very rarely in a cash game, depending on dead money in the pot, and stack sizes. If stackot ratio is ridiculous, I might slow down and keep the pot small until I can improve to the boat I so desire, and maybe try to get to a cheap showdown unimproved.